Forbes: More People Are Buying Hybrid Cars. So Why Won't They Stick With Them?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by massparanoia, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I don't give Obama a pass, and I too am sorry he did not tell the Merkin public to get a clue.

    However, this *is* a democracy, and Obama cannot completely ignore the yells and screams when they reach a certain pitch. At least not if he wants to stay in office and try to pass *part* of his agenda.

    In terms of energy and the environment, Obama has done the following (which a republican would not have done, or done the opposite):

    1. Not drilled in ANWAR
    2. Increased CAFE dramatically
    3. Put a scientist in charge of the EPA, and (somewhat) restored its integrity
    4. Allowed CA to classify CO2 as a pollutant
    5. Charged the EPA with regulating CO2
    6. Capped new power plant CO2 emissions

    I'm sure there is a lot more. You can pick a 1/2 full glass (Obama), or an empty glass (repubs).
     
  2. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Picked the big three. Add in more, some not quite 50% (Norway) others 70% (Spain and Italy). Japan is also 50% of US. The facts are clear.

    Germany is the gold standard in regard to a lot of policies such as energy, industrial development policy, health care.

    Had US followed Germany's lead we would not import any oil, US greenhouse gases would be 90% of 1990 levels, US would have robust alternative energy industry, no US oil wars, no oil trade deficit and military budget reduced by 50%.
     
  3. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Certainly Obama better than McCain would have been or Romney might be but the fact remains US went backwards under Obama and he proposed no policies that would have moved the US forward in his current four year or in the next for years if he is re-elected.

    Obama's killing the Graham-Kerry Climate bill stands out. By unilaterally giving subsidies to nuclear, oil and coal industry, undercutting Graham and Kerry, Obama killed the bill. Was Obama simply incompetent or was he doing someone a favor?

    He did campaign on making progress on climate.
     
  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    On topic guys or this gets moved to you-know-where.
     
  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Ditto. Let's the keep the politics out of this thread.

    I don't have access to FHopPol nor do I want it.
     
  6. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Actually shouldn't this and the other posts all about the same survey be combined?

    Every time another media outlet picks it up, a new thread starts, all with a different twist based on the outlet and the poster.

    Forbes did post a political editorial in referring to the study but it was the same study we see as the basis for several different conversations.
     
  7. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    :rofl:

    No president has done anything meaningful for the environment since Reagan ratified the Montreal Protocol.
     
  8. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    I think the debate is going well, nobody has resorted to mud slinging....yet
     
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I don't recall seeing any political stuff there so I'll keep it separate for now (unless the other mods want to combine it)

    ... yet. This is my proactive warning :D
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Non sequitor, since who the heck knows what you define as 'meaningful.'

    Care to count the number of times the repubs tried to drill ANWAR during the 4 years of Bush and a repub controlled congress, only to have the initiative blocked by Democratic fiibuster ? Please don't try the "that is congress, not the president" line here. The policy was coordinated, as you can see from how few times Bush vetoed during that period.
     
  11. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Without trying to get this thread kicked to the political forums, by meaningful I mean just that. Having meaning. Drilling or not drilling in the ANWR pales in environmental significance to what has been, and has yet to be realized by the Montreal Protocol. By meaningful I refer to having global significance. Whether or not to drill for oil in a small piece of a wildlife refuge in Alaska, which according to CNN 59% of people support is at best a national issue, and more likely a state one.

    The Montreal Protocol has been ratified by 197 countries, and has proven to have a positive reduction in the amount of greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere, and has resulted in the atmosphere actually healing itself.

    Scientific Assessment of Ozone Depletion 2006
    The Ozone Hole-The Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer

    So by meaningful I refer to having a global impact. Not partisan squabbling over an amount of oil that will only have about a 1% impact on oil production and have no impact on oil prices.EIA - Analysis of Crude Oil Production in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge

    " Perhaps the single most successful international agreement to date has been the Montreal Protocol. "-Kofi Annan, Former Secretary General of the United Nations


    I thought you guys want to think globally, not just in our backyard. ANWR is our backyard. Montreal Protocol is global. Global progress is meaningful progress, at least I think so.

    But maybe this is just more of my "extreme rhetoric".
     
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  12. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    Sure they have, it just hasn't been enough. Cash for Clunkers, EV lane stickers, rebates, charging stations, solar energy incentives... To say the Federal government has done nothing to promote alternative energy is mis-informed. But they haven't done enough, which isn't a surprise considering that the oil industry has been in the oval office for five of the last eight Presidential terms -- 20 of the past 30 years have seen the oil industry in the Oval Office.

    How much more tobacco would America be smoking if the tobacco industry was so well-connected in Washington?
     
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  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Simple answer. Poor journalists . . . . needing to stay employed, they'll write out of drama and/or ignorance. Here we have a miniscule drama factoid ... the minority of hybrid (not Toyotas ... but rather malibu, civic, etc) owners are pale in comparison to the Prius. Folks buy lower quality/non-Toyota hybrids because they're cheep. Folks are then dissatisfied with them because they're cheep. That minority hybrid dissatisfied owner statistic gets branded onto the Prius, even though the stat has nothing to do with the Prius. Heck, if I'd purchased a hy-Civic that had premature battery failure - and then it got re-programmed to get worse mpg's just to help prevent battery failure ... I'd unload the hy-civic too.

    .
     
  14. Pretext

    Pretext New Member

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    Because there are better alternative means of transportation than a Toyota Prius which is what this study is really about. Driving a Toyota or a Prius is not fun and doesn't really save money or the earth in the long run.:cool:
     
  15. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    if you bought a Prius for fun driving then you bought the wrong car.
     
  16. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Actually what makes the Prius fun to drive is that it does save fuel and save the planet and you can increase your score on both those metrics every time you drive it.

    Prius makes driving fun again and engages the driver more than boring cars with no fuel saving feedback features.
     
  17. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I think when you run headlines like "More People Are Buying Hybrid Cars. So Why Won't They Stick With Them?". It's making a lot of assumptions and unfair implications based on one data point, the supposed 25% or 35% repeat rate among buyers.

    It implys I think unfairly that Hybrid buyers are buying hybrids, becoming unsatisfied and NOT buying another.

    When I think there are many other unrelated reasons why if evaluating repeat Hybrid Purchase the numbers could be skewed. First of all when you say "Hybrid" you are not just talking recent or relatively recent versions of Prius, Gen 2 or Gen 3. You are talking about all of Honda's line, which is a significantly different product. IMA vs. HSD.

    I'd be curious as to what the specific numbers are..specifically for Gen 2 and Gen 3 Prius. Also, with growing numbers as Hybrids and Prius mainstream, how long have we had to grow a base of repeat buyers. This latest Generation of Prius had the highest amount of 1st time buyers...the real test will be in the next few years, how many of those 1st time buyers continue to be hybrid or Prius purchasers. Since we are only talking since model year 2010 for the 3rd Gen Prius, I don't think we have a fair base to know how those numbers will return.

    If you are basing those numbers on all hybrid available going back to the early days of the first Gen Prius, and the original Honda Insight? Then I don't think those numbers are necessarily fair. The hybrid product has been refining itself all along.

    I've seldom read a post from a Prius Owner that is so disenchanted with their purchase that they proclaim they would never buy one again...infact most often the opposite.

    But I have read a lot of posts from Honda Civic Hybrid Owners that have become disenchanted with their Hybrid as the battery aged. That could really be skewing the numbers.

    In anycase, I think the assumption that a 35% supposed loyalty rate, makes a statement about Hybrids as a product in general, is unfair.

    The product is not static, has changed considerably in technology and refinement in a from automotive standpoint, a short time.

    I'm not so concerned about a "Loyalty Rate" today, as I will be with a Loyalty Rate...in 2-5 years based on a the expansion of the entire Prius family. How many families today, driving a Prius V, buy another in 5 years?

    I think as the refinement of the Hybrid product advances..and it has, and as the range of Hybrid options expands..and it has...and the number of 1st time buyers expands...and it has...one should expect the number of repeat buyers to increase, assuming the hybrid product is good....and I make that assumption.

    Throwing out a figure today, based on ALL Hybrids going back over a decade? Is a yesterdays Apples to todays Oranges comparison, and simply seems to be using a one single data point, to run Anti-Hybrid articles.

    Most buyers of recent Hybrids...haven't owned them long enough to be making repeat buys in mass....

    Those 1st time buyers of Gen 3, that have already traded in their Hybrid, would at this early stage probably be people that WERE immediately disatisfied for any number of reasons. Therefore unlikely to repeat a hybrid purchase. But the numbers cannot account for those 2010, 2011 1st time buyers that are completely satisfied, and WILL buy another over the course of the next few years.
     
  18. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    I think your right. I think the fact that there are so few used ones out there, and the fact that when a used one pops up someone will scoop it up for top dollar even if it has a ton of miles is a testament to people's commitment to the car.
     
  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Any proof, beyond tautologies and soundbites from Kofi ?

    How about numbers ?

    If you want to see an actual effect of a UN resolution (Rio, 1992), read this
    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-close-to-passing-anti-un-sustainability-bill
    So perhaps by meaningful, you mean right wing kooks scream even louder ?
     
  20. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    They need to do a study on how many people buy the -same car- or -same kind of car- again after x years. THEN compare that to those who buy hybrids and what they get next.

    Bad data equals nonsense conclusions!
     
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