Ford C-Max Energi Gets Official EPA Rating of 100 MPGe Combined

Discussion in 'Ford/Lincoln Hybrids and EVs' started by scottf200, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. scottf200

    scottf200 Member

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    Ford C-Max Energi Gets Official EPA Rating of 100 MPGe Combined
    Ford C-Max Energi Gets Official EPA Rating of 100 MPGe Combined

     
  2. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    That's 4 MPG hit in hybrid mode. Prius PHV is the only plugin that kept the original hybrid 50 MPG once the plug electricity is used up.

    43 MPG still better than the Volt and you get a bigger car. I think it also runs on regular gas, unlike the Volt. If your commute is less than 20 miles round trip (51% of US), this car is probably ideal for you.

    This is how the PHV battery pack in the trunk looks like but you still have 5 seats.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Heck, even if your commute is 25 miles, your blended mode can still easily go over 100mpge. I could stretch the PiP EV range to 17 miles, and then the remaining 2.5ish miles of my commute that I still had to complete my drive, always netted me 100+mpg.
     
  4. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    MPGe is not the MPG displays on the screen. It is a measurement of efficiency from tank-to-wheel (vehicle efficiency). Battery is very efficient (~80%) but gas is not (~40%). Upstream (fuel production) is totally opposite but that's another entirely different discussion.

    Yea, it is amazing what blended PHVs are achieving. 100 MPGe beats Nissan Leaf 99 MPGe (pure EV). It is most likely due to the weight.

    C-Max Energi (City/Highway): 108MPGe / 92MPGe
    Leaf (City/Highway): 106MPGe / 92MPGe

    I wonder if the C-Max Energi completed the entire 5 cycle EPA cycles without starting the gas engine. Prius PHV had to use 0.2 gallon of gas in the highspeed aggressive cycle. That's what dragged it's MPGe down to 95.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I wonder where the hit in gasoline economy was. City, highway, or across the board. No word on whether it qualifies as a true EV. A power search for electric fuel vehicles on fueleconomy.gov won't yield the Prius PHV because of the 0.2 gallons it burns in EV mode.

    The Fusion Energi will be a little higher. It starts at a lower weight than the C-max.
     
  6. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    Do you have a citation for that? Last I recall the PHEVs, including Volt and Prius PHV, were being tested only on the 2 cycle test not the 5 cycle test?

    Since the Energi has the same 62mph limit, and more mass, its unlikly it can complete the tests without gas, tough it does have greater torque so maybe.
     
  7. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I did a bit more digging and I think you are right. PHEV testings were done on 2-cycles and then adjustments were made to reflect the 5-cycle.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Actually I've read that its way above a 70mph Number. don't make me find a linking quote ... but I'll look for it :)

    SGH-I717R ? 2
     
  9. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    My bad.. you are correct they claimed in Ford C-MAX Energi Delivers Industry’s Top Electric-Only Speed Among Plug-In Hybrids at the Touch of a Button | Ford Motor Company Newsroom

    [quote[At the touch of a button, Ford C-MAX Energi plug-in hybrid drivers can enjoy the industry’s top electric-only speed among all plug-in hybrid vehicles – 85 mph.[/quote]

    So it probably can complete the tests in Ev mode. I think I mixed it with the C-MAX hybrid..


    (As an aside, 85 is not the top eletric only speed unless you exclude the Volt and the Karma as EREVs -- both can do 100 in EV. )




     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Yes, that's it .... 85mph EV ... I knew I'd read that somewhere. Can you imagine how fast that motor/generator has to spin in order to allow for 85mph? Dang!
    My only questions now relates to its BMS. Passive cooling? active? How large is the top & bottome end of the traction pack that doesn't get used . . . . . . Haven't read anything yet on those spec's.

    .
     
  11. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Yup, 85 MPH top EV speed is confirmed on Ford's spec page. The battery can put out 68kW so it probably is enough... but the car weights 3,859 lbs.
     
  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I think they had to change the PSD ratio because the top speed for Energi is 102 mph. C-Max hybrid top speed is 115 mph. That could also explain why Energi's hybrid mode is rated at 43 MPG instead of 47 MPG.
     
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The battery pack is air cooled with fans like the current prius and prius phv. It is not liquid cooled. That may be a reason ford chose this sanyo pack over the lg chem liquid cooled pack in the focus ev. It can provide 68kw (~90hp) of power.

    The battery pack is 7.5 kwh. If we assume 100 mpge and 20 mile range and 20% charging loss, that means 5.4 kwh used for ev - 72% SOC, we probably won't get real figures until closer to the ship date. I would guestimate that would be 20%-92% used, since you want some bottom buffer for hybrid use once out of ev range.

    I don't know the gear ratios, but mg2 needs to spin fast no matter what at high speeds. I would guess it is geared for mg1 to turn less than 13K rpm which is fine for an mg designed for it.:) They could remove some of the motor paracitic drag by adding a clutch, but my guess is this is not too high and most drivers will stay below that magic 85 mph.
     
  14. scottf200

    scottf200 Member

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    Ford likes to do comparisons...

    Ford Makes History With C-Max Energi At Michigan Assembly Plant
    <snip>
    The C-Max Energi is America’s most fuel-efficient and affordable plug-in hybrid vehicle, delivering 108 MPGe city and “real car” horsepower of 195, eclipsing the Prius plug-in by more than 60 horsepower.
    After launching the new Escape, Fusion and C-MAX hybrids, Ford now beats Toyota in fuel economy in every segment where both compete.”
    The Michigan plant formerly built two large (and not very efficient SUVS), and certainly times have changed. Listing of current products at the plant can be found below (complete with Ford PR write-ups):
    • C-MAX Energi – America’s most fuel-efficient and affordable plug-in hybrid vehicle – is on its way to Ford EV-certified dealers in half the states across the country. As Ford’s first production plug-in hybrid, C-MAX Energi provides customers with an all-new electrified vehicle offering that delivers a class-leading 108 MPGe cityEPA rating, “real car” horsepower of 195 (versus Prius plug-in’s 134 horsepower) and a leading EV-only speed of 85 mph, 20 mph above the Prius plug-in.
    • C-MAX Hybrid – The country’s most fuel-efficient and affordable hybrid utility vehicle is now the best-selling hybrid utility vehicle after outselling Toyota Prius v, 3,182 units to 2,769 units, in just its first full month of sales in October. C-MAX Hybrid delivers EPA-certified 47 mpg city, 47 mpg highway ratings – 7 mpg better than the Toyota Prius v on the highway – for a 47 mpg combined rating – plus more performance and technology.
    • <snip>
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    why do they call it a 'hybrid utility vehicle'?
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Maybe someone trademarked hybrid crossover already?
    Despite my endorsement, the public, and thus car makers, find wagon a ugly word.
     
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  17. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    Because then it can be the most efficient HUV in the country.. If they just called it a hybrid it would not be.

    I don't see it as a utility vehicle.. no AWD, cannot all sheetrock/lumber, no towing, etc.
     
  18. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    OK, what is an SUV versus a CUV verus a car. A SUV has a higher ride height check, good hip and shoulder room check, lots of storage space to put bikes and other fun stuff (half check, it does with the back seat folded down), off road capability - no, towing capability -no.

    A CUV seems to be anything so maybe its enough. Its a cross between a prius and an escape - really its just a tall focus.:(
    The prius v is really a prius station waggon, but toyota wants to call it a CUV. It seems short and underpowered for that role, but hey the c-max is a stretch too, so both manufacturers want to call it a CUV.

    Ford wants to compare the c-max to the v, so it cn be better in most catagories other than cargo space. That's why they do it for marketing.

    Toyota wants to compare it to the prius, and avoid comparisons to the prius v, but the motortrend people found a sheet where toyota was comparing them too.

    Lose lose I say.
    Its a tall hybrid. I don't think its best at anything other than the energi - highest mpge phev in cd.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    thank you all.:)
     
  20. SJ PiP

    SJ PiP Member

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    the energi has 2cu ft less cargo space (rear seats up) than the Prius Liftback and PiP. no sense to call it an SUV.
     
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