Ford : C-Max Hybrid to have better fuel economy than Prius v

This is a 23kwh liquid cooled pack for a BEV. Its not a bad thing, y'all need to not think this is like the nimh battery pack in the prius.

Toyota is having tesla do a similar modification to a rav 4 to make it a BEV. No plans that I have heard of to have an all electric conversion of a yaris. Magna, the supplier that worked on the EV1 developed most of the focus bev components, and this was done quickly to get to market. JCI-saft the company that does most of the car interiors and suppies EV batteries for ford's transit connect, has a EV battery layout that can be assmbled as part of a cars floor with seats that built for this interior. The volt uses a T, the leaf has its batteries under the seats and under the rear footwells. Given time and money Ford can definitely change the packaging but this was mostly a retrofit, and the battery supplier is compact power(LG chem) the same as the GM's for the volt.

 

There is a similar situation in my household. About 15 years ago, we bought a Taurus that turned out to be a really bad lemon. After that, my wife has decreed that until the end of time, we will never own a Ford again

 

whatever it is, it is poor... As to the Toyota, as much as I know, iQ EV has battery below the car, not in the trunk... and Yaris HSD loses no trunk at all compared to normal version.

It is called superior engineering, and why Toyota sells 700,000 hybrids per year and Ford sells... 30k-40k?

 

of course, it is plugin... compare that to Prius Plugin and are they really competing?

 

you need to be a bit more realistic when it comes to american cars... C-Max Hybrid competes with Prius, not with Prius v. It is small minivan, and 40% difference in trunk means they dont compete. Nobody is going to look at both cars and decide between Prius v and C-Max... if they need more space, they will get Prius v... if they need less space, they will look between Prius and C-Max.

And Focus plugin competes with nothing with that trunk, it is obviously just for PR show. It is not going to compete with Volt, Nissan or Prius PHEV.

If Ford doesnt want to invest money to make their cars lighter, and package their powertrain better, it is their problem, not customers. They will keep selling 10-15x less hybrids than Toyota and its their problem.

 

hmm. AFAIK the iq ev will not be offered for public sale, I would not compare that vehicle. I have not seen any details on the yaris hybrid, but it should be compared to other hybrids, not a full EV plug in, compare it to the c-max hybrid if you wish, but again that nor the c-max plug in, have the pack you showed. That is the focus bev as noted on the link.

You are entitled to your opinion, but as I said I disagree about your segmentation, and I have not seen it in any of the automotive press. c-max is not a direct station waggon like the v, but both are trying to call themselves cross overs. No one would mistake the c-max hybrid for a minivan either, that would be the grand c-max sold only in europe. The cargo space for crossovers market normally look at things with the seats folded down, and the cars are similar here, you can read dimesnsions further up the thread. Only honda was foolish enough to go directly at the prius and it failed on the insight.

people loved their ev1s with much smaller storage, and only 2 seats. Fords problem with the focus bev is that it is much more expensive than the leaf. Don't let the loud yelling about the cargo area fool you. Lots of folks have smaller trunks.

It seems to me that the c-max hybrid is quite well designed. Its a mistake to only look at weight. Handling, acceleration, and fuel economy are all related to weight. We need to wait for a review to see about handling, but if it handles like the regular c-max that is an improvement over the prius and prius v, so not penalized by weight. The acceleration needs numbers, but again its better than anything in the prius family. Weight should reduce fuel economy, but according to ford, it is between the prius and prius v here, and the prius v is a lighter more aerodynamic car. The c-max engine and hybrid drive are likely more efficient.

Ford simply can not compete in the japanese market. In the american and european market, ford technology is the same as toyota's. Toyota sells more cars in more segments, and has a big lead in the prius and lexus rx450h. Ford's goal is 100k units in 2013

 

Ford C-Max pricing to undercut Toyota Prius V

 

That pricing should get ford back in the hybrid game. Now if they can get the energi out at $33K

 

Shame Ford didn't come out with a hybrid Focus and compete with Prius. Doesn't look that is in the works for 2013.

Odd choice to start competing with smaller market Prius V and avoiding the big market, Prius and Prius C (hybrid Focus and Fiesta).

An example of why US car manufacturers are going out of business.

 

Looks interesting, I look forward to the real world reports on how it stacks up!

 

Focus and Prius are not in the same class.

Ford is going the even smarter route of not using hybrids in the smaller cars and is going to focus on the DI turbo ecoboost for these cars. This will keep them cheaper and still provide great MPG.

Next year the 1.0l 3cyl Fiesta will be here and should get 35/42ish numbers without batteries and barely any cost increase.

Some of you will scoff at those numbers and point to Prius C and its far superior numbers. You can get a Fiesta for under 16k...that's something like 162k miles to make up cost difference. IE...significant.

 

Why not? Ok, 5 door version has a litle smaller boot, but 4 door version has bigger boot and is longer than Prius, there is also estate version with even bigger boot.

 

Focus is strictly 5 door or sedan now with latest gen in US.

I suppose they should be since the Focus has bloated itself out of the compact category. Looking at the numbers they are almost identical in size with Prius having more passenger space and Focus having more cargo space.

 

If you think the Focus EV trunk is bad look at the not even a real hybrid Malibu:

 

BTW, for reference:

Focus EV- 14.5 cu ft
Camry Hybrid- 15.4 cu ft
Prius C- 17.1 cu ft

Focus also states 1.5cu ft of hidden space

So its not nearly as bad as it looks.

 

50 mpg Focus would be in the same class. I'd be driving one now instead of a Prius if Ford had spent the last four years developing and improving a Focus hybrid instead of dropping hybrids (Escape Hybrid gone) and spending time reinventing Toyota's lowest volume hybrid with an odd car which you can't buy for another year.

Ah you mean don't compete in the best selling Prius and Prius C market. I'd call that terminally stupid and Ford's decline market share in hybrids would seem to be evidence of Ford's poor decisions. Of course, twice bankrupt (going for three) GM is not even in the game.

Three years I'm in the market for a car again and it will likely be another Toyota, hopefully a plug-in with 50 mile EV range which would just about eliminate my car gasoline use. If Volt is still around and has improved, I'd consider one.

 

Decline?

Fusion
Fusion energi
C-max
C-max energi

If you want to get silly they will have twice as many plug ins as Toyota.

 

I think a Focus HV is still a possibility. It's just smarter for Ford to wait. Better to build their hybrid rep in other segments without the pressure of directly taking on the Prius first. By all accounts, the Fusion HV is a nice car. It surpassed the Camry HV in fuel economy when introduced. The new Camry surpasses it, but it appears Toyota will have less than a year of bragging rights before the new Fusion comes to market.

Then there is the reality of resource availability. The Escape HV shortages of Aisin parts, so Ford has been moving hybrid production in house for this generation of hybrids. They now have four new hybrids coming out, two of which are plug in. Battery supply could be a limiting factor. Perhaps production can be increased for another hybrid model. Perhaps they don't want to risk quality control issues by increasing shifts. Or they want to hold production capacity in reserve in case a model takes off.

We also can't overlook the fact that Ford has been climbing out of a financial hole from before the recession. Some exciting things have been coming from them, but they don't have the reserves to do everything right now.

I think we'll see a Focus(based?) Prius fighter from them in the future. I also think we are more likely to hear about a Taurus or Flex hybrid first. Ecoboost seems to be their priority now. We were all hit by the recession, and it offers fuel savings without the cost of a hybrid.

 

Yes that is silly. Right now Ford is down to one hybrid, the Fusion. They never developed a hybrid to compete with the Prius, the biggest market for hybrids.