Ford C Max, Prius killer?

Discussion in 'Ford/Lincoln Hybrids and EVs' started by UTBuckeye, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. Quentin

    Quentin Member

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    drinnovation likes this.
  2. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

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    Too early to tell what the C-Max average really is (or will be). The Prius data appears to indicate a real distribution, while the C-Max only seems to provide a range of numbers. Still, the indication is C-Max is not going to meet the EPA numbers. Time and a greater number of reporting drivers will provide the better information.
     
  3. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Too new to tell, and as in any Hybrid, it takes at least 10K miles before the true MPG numbers show. I have seen reports of 52 MPG in the Cmax, and regular drivers are getting 40+ MPG in the car. I used to own a Prius and TCH, and now own a 2010 FFH, and out of the 3 the Ford is the better of the 3 all around. It gets much better MPG than the Camry ever did, is quieter, more comfortable, and handles better. The Cmax most likely will be the same compared to the Prius, plus the fact it is a European chassis that has a good record behind it helps. I sat in one last night and it is far different from the Prius I had. If I can get 50 MPG out of my FFH, it should not be a problem with getting it out of the Cmax.
     
  4. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

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    Interesting comments. Glad to hear from someone who can compare a number of hybrids from the point of view of an owner. Still, I wonder about your comments.

    I've owned only two hybrids -- a Prius each time. It didn't take me 10,000 miles to see my "true" MPG. It showed up right away in each Prius.

    I'm glad you like your 2010 FFH, but the comparison to the prior generation Prius seems a bit out of place. Unless, of course, you can get the same fuel economy in each car and find the Fusion's size and other points to be an advantage over the Prius.

    And this brings up another point: You said "If I can get 50 MPG out of my FFH . . ." -- So: Can you get 50 MPG in your FFH? I don't mean in one drive or even one tank, but across a full year's worth of use?
     
  5. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Compared to the 07 Pri, the Fusion is more comfortable, roomier, quieter, and handles a whole lot better. The only advantage the Pri had was that it was easy to get high MPG, the Fusion I have to work it, and no it wont get 50 MPG consistent, roads, weather and traffic all played a big part in that high MPG trip. However, compared to the Camry, it is consistently higher in MPG, the best I ever got was 43 in that car. It averaged around 34, and had a problem where the regen brakes would disengage, and the service brakes would not engage, and required more pressure on the pedal to stop. When it happened the first couple times to me, my wife thought I was goofing around and gave me dirty looks, then it happened to her, and she freaked. thankfully it only happened out in the country where we dont have traffic to contend with, but if it had happened closer to work in traffic, who knows what might have happened.

    the Prius cant be compared to any other car, until now with the Cmax hitting the lots, and again, that is a huge leap over the the prius I had, and the new gen prius, did not impress me one bit. The poor handling and touchy traction control had soured us from Prius. In the City, we probably would not have noticed the cross wind problems, or the TC problem, but where we live and transit, it played a huge role in our dislike of the car. The Camry did overcome both issues, but the poor quality of materials, and fit and finish issues, turned us away from toyota completely. Ford has done such a huge job in making nice cars that are solid, and compared to the older cars, its like night and day. Up until the 2010 Fusion came out, the only car Ford made that I considered was the Crown Vic, since its old school and what I drove, RWD, but when the 2010 Fusion came out, and I sat in one, it was a whole new ball game.

    Jump forward 3 years, the 2013 just blew the 2010 away. I bought a 2013 FFH today, after taking a long test drive, the car is just so smooth, quiet, roomy, great handling, and peppy. The rear seats fold down now, and there is 7 feet of room back there, more than I had in the bed of my F150! Too bad the opening is only 8 inches though. :)

    As for the 10K miles, bet if you did a search in the forums here, you will find others saying the same thing. It's like a switch is flipped, where MPG fluctuates around for the first 10K, then everything smooths out, and MPG goes up a little more. I didn't see it much on the Prius, but I did on the Camry and Fusion. The Camry was around 32, then rose to 34 and leveled out there, the Fusion started out around 35 and went up to 39. Now its pretty consistent at 37-41 in my DD depending on temps, rain and traffic.

    My Avatar shows the trip where I got 50 MPG in the Fusion.
     
  6. Quentin

    Quentin Member

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    Making claims of 50mpg over a short trip like that are disingenuous at best. That trip could have been over a slight downhill grade or had a tailwind. I've gotten over 25mpg over a tank in my 4WD V6 4Runner before, but those were absolute ideal driving conditions (flat, 55-65mph speed limit).
     
  7. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    It doesn't look good for the CMAX so far. Not bad but close to 10% less mpg on a car one is buying for MPG. And fact that Ford is not meeting the EPA rating by 20% while Prius beats its EPA rating.

    VvsMAX.jpg
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Yet, we get them continuously. Fortunately, all you have to do is press for detail to reveal the true story.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    interesting camry hybrid story above. our 08 is quiet powerful and smooth, beautiful fit and finish. my wife gets 35-45 mpg consistantly depending mostly on weather and she makes mostly short trips around town. we rented a fusion (non hybrid) in cali. it was brand new and i thought it was sub par to the camry. my wife found the seats very uncomfortable and up until then, she was going to test drive the fusion hybrid before deciding on her next car.
     
  10. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

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    I greatly appreciate the full and complete response to my earlier question. Clearly, the Prius was not the car for you, and you like the Fusion. I've heard many people respond positively to the Fusion, hybrid version or standard. Still, you can't compare old models with late models of different cars. Also, you really shouldn't make MPG claims suggesting 50 MPGs on a Fusion hybrid on a Prius site -- you'll be forced to present the full story.
    As I said, you don't care for the Prius, and I'll accept that. However, the Gen III is a different car than the Gen II. It is heavier, a different design, wider-set and with a longer wheelbase. All of these, combined with a larger engine, have given the Gen III much better handling on the highway, particularly in windy conditions. To be fair, my 2010 is a Model V with 215/45 R17 tires and different suspension, so it rides better in most every condition, with a loss of fuel economy. Even with that loss, I've still AVERAGED 50 MPG for the first 60,000 miles.
    I'll leave it for someone else to do the research on the first 10,000 miles. I'll simply say that I have complete records for both my 2007 and 2010, and I had pretty consistent fuel economy from the very start. I do see a little tailing off of FE after 40,000 miles, but less than 1 MPG total drop.
    My signature shows the numbers for both the Gen II and the Gen III, reflecting TOTAL fuel economy for every drop of gas purchased. For the 2010, the numbers are from the MFD (on-board computer), but the actual fuel purchased shows the average FE to be 50 MPG.
     
  11. skwcrj

    skwcrj Member

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    I got some information from the EPA that the EPA tested the 2013 Ford C-Max Energi thoroughly but they did not test the regular 2013 C-Max hybrid which is rated at 47/47/47. There have been some people who have been critical of these ratings and a number of articles written that question their validity so the EPA may do their own testing to confirm those results but that has not happened yet.

    The Energi is rated at 44 City/ 41 Hwy/ 43 combined. Even though the Energi is 250 lbs heavier than the Hybrid, the Energi's numbers seem more in line with what most users are seein in the real world with the Hybrid. I wonder if the 47/47/47 will get revised? I hope this doesn't turn into a bad press episode like the Hyundai/Kia fiasco.

    The story gets more interesting....
     
  12. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Those numbers though are from the EPA, not Ford. EPA rated the F150 Ecoboost, and they don't get anywhere near EPA when they have certain options, like Max Tow, 4x4, supercrew, etc. EPA is just a guideline since no two people drive the same. When driven in under the right conditions, the C-max will exceed the ratings. Heck under the right conditions my 2010 FFH exceeds EPA by at least 7 MPG. I wish the conditions were always right though! LOL.

    Under EPA guidelines, the average speed is something like 45 MPH, and yep at 45 MPH average speed, oh yeah great MPG in both the Hybrids and the F150. Go above or below that and you get what you get.

    What I like about the Energi is being able to choose when you use the EV. For me, if I were to get one, since from my house nearly to work is rural country roads and state highways of 55 MPH, it would be a waste to run electric on them, but once I hit the city, it would be all electric. With 21 mile range, that would actually work out quite well, since my in town commute is roughly 7 miles each way, with a few miles during lunch.
     
  13. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    OK, gonna save you the trouble of doing a SEARCH. I googled and second link I hit,

    Better Gas Mileage in a Toyota Prius | Hybrid Cars

     
  14. Quentin

    Quentin Member

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    EPA sets the guideline but only tests ~15% of the vehicles. The automakers generally carry out the test.

    I simply think that Ford front loaded the test with a full battery and the short, 11 mile test wasn't long enough to bring the average down to what it would actually get. It is LOT heavier, more powerful, and less aerodynamic (drag coefficient and frontal area) than the Prius v. The bigger battery and higher EV-only speed of the Ford are certainly advantageous on a short, low-ish speed test.
     
  15. skwcrj

    skwcrj Member

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    I'm a bit confused. Are you replying to my post or another above mine?

    From the email I got from the EPA, the C-Max Hybrid has not been tested by the EPA (YET!). The 47/47/47 numbers are by Ford conducting the EPA test.

    The EPA test has multiple speeds and acceleration rates over city, highway, high speed highway driving, cold and hot temperatures. 45 mph is an average not a constant speed. My daily commute is 33 miles one way. Of that 33 miles, only 3 miles is not highway. I drive on the highway at 60-65 mph. Guess what my average speed is? Yep 45-49 mph depending on how long I get stuck on traffic lights during those 3 miles I'm not on the highway.
     
  16. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

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    While I'll agree with much of what the author is saying, this portion of it does not resonate. Perhaps my vehicles have been out of the norm. As I've said multiple times before, my records indicate no break-in period for either Prius. I started with good MPGs and have continued that way (until I sold the first one and put new tires on the second).

    I think this "Break-In Period" has more to do with the driver than the vehicle. With a brand-new hybrid, though, there may be more to it. For the C-Max, if the AI learning process exists, then there may be even more of a true break-in period.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    How was your fuel economy with non-Prius?
    I agree the break in is more about the driver. I didn't get my high numbers in the beginning with the Prius.
     
  18. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I had a good 10 minute sit in the C-Max. Driver's headroom avaialbe is very good. I'm 6'2" and had what seemed 5 inches to spare. It felt good in the cockpit. I adjusted driver's seat 2 clicks forward from full back and that legroom felt pretty good. But, the legroom just behind driver's seat at its setting was not very good, actually scant.

    The cargo area appeared small to me. cargo area is not very wide and due to the independent suspension, wells jut into the side cargo area. It appeared to have 'quite a bit less cargo area and rear seat area than Prius v'.

    C-Max appears sort of small overall when I sttod back and looked it. It appeard to be same length as regular prius, but noticeably shorter than Prius v. The specs back taht up. Then we have a few dozen C-Max's clocking only 38.5 mpg while Prus v is solid at 42.5. Will C-Max extra 50 system HP be enough to woo buyers?

    Also, why did Ford decide to go with 225/50-17 tires on all of them? Seems a bit wide and low profile for that type of car. we'll see how it stacks up to Prius.
     
  19. Craig Shelley

    Craig Shelley New Member

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    Prius family sales are down slightly in November from October 2012. C-Max family sales are just getting started, but up 52% with the C-Max Energi selling for a full month now. Most C-Max sales do come from an owner of another vehicle, "conquest" sales. The Prius is the most common trade-in for a C-Max. C-Max Sales Push Ford to Best Ever Monthly Hybrid Sales | C-MaxChat
     
  20. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    38.5 mpg vs 42.5 mpg at 10,000 miles/year is less than 25 gallons a year difference. It would only take a small difference in something I cared about to make that 25 gallons seem insignificant.
     
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