Ford Further Improving On-Road Hybrid Fuel Economy

My understanding is that the 5 test results all get rolled into the city and highway numbers. So no change to the sticker.

If only the two tests are performed, an adjustment is applied(don't what it is or how it's figured). Just like for the pre-2008 results of older cars. If the other 3 tests are performed, then those results are used for a more accurate adjustment factor for the main two tests.

I could be wrong on that. Fueleconomy.gov wasn't helpful, and make it sound like the 5 tests are required.

 

You are correct, but they don't actually have to perform all the tests. I would like them to though

Time To Stop Extrapolating

 

Not quite true. Toyota was pressured by the Japanese Government to investigate the braking complaints. Toyota in it's own self defense never admitted to any "defect", the software was quietly changed in production and then retroactively the update was applied to Prius already sold.

I'm NOT saying the affect didn't exist. I was very active within Prius Chat during this time and read the numerous threads.

But it's kind of a waste of time to debate which is worse...Fords rather long list of numerous software updates to multiple aspects of their hybrids operation OR Toyota's 1 time update to adjust braking FEEL in the 3rd Gen Prius...which is now over and done with....

I realize vehicles get improved with time. Which is why I most often avoid buying a first model year vehicle. But totally separate from comments about Honda, or Toyota....I still think Fords long laundry list of software updates begs the question...why didn't they do this right out of the gate? Or at least most of these things.

Somebody dropped the ball if the vehicle they are currently selling is capable of 50 percent faster warm up times, and a 23 MPH improvement in electric only mode on the highway and all it takes is a software recalibration.

I'm glad Ford is offering these improvements to their vehicle owners. But the almost all encompassing list of software updates and systems being improved smacks of an auto manufacturer that may of rushed production and/or simply doesn't have the experience in building a Hybrid that Toyota has...

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No! When the Japanese government questioned them they said they had no problem, but they had fixed the problem! What? How could they claim to have fixed a problem that didn't exist. That's when the pressure came to actually inform customers there was a problem.

I got a recall notice. It no longer said the lie, people don't know how to use the brakes. It said there was a problem. I knew there was a problem because I had experienced it. I had taken my car in, and told by toyota there wasn't a problem.

Mainly things by gen II owners I am sure. Look toyota got fined after being caught hiding information about defects twice or three times. Keeping information about problems in europe on the pedals, illegally from the US government. We know from investigation there was an effort to keep information out of the US when problems were found. It was pulling that same crap with the brake defect and put out a bunch of lies that you believed.

Brake software bugs are serious. They are not cosmetic. It was not about braking feel. You should not sugar coat it. If you do you encourage the same bad behaviour of covering up defects. Toyota wasn't the first car company to do it, or even the worst, but don't misrepresent this stuff because something you read on this blog.

 

Listen, what is the reality?

The Toyota software flash update to the braking system was just what it was....a software update. No physical or mechanical aspect of the brakes were changed or adjusted...no parts replaced.

I'm not saying, nor has Toyota ever said it wasn't needed. THEY DID IT. But I don't think it fair to admonish Toyota for a singular software update to recalibrate the FEEL of the brakes in the GEN 3, but applaud Ford for upwards of 10 software changes to recalibrate almost EVERYTHING.

And like I said, this thread isn't really about what software updates Honda has done in the past, nor Toyota....it's about Fords current updates.

If you want to think Toyota's recalibration update of the Gen 3's brake software is somehow more "horrible" than Fords almost all encompassing updates of multiple aspects of their entire Hybrid system...go right ahead.

I still think from Fords POV, the NEED to update that many aspects of their operating software is not representative of a good thing. And while I applaud Ford for making their product better, I'd still point to this as some proof that I think Toyota remains the leader in building the best most reliable Hybrids.

 

It's more 'horrible' because it involves a system vital to controlling the car. Regardless of how many people adapted to the 'quirkiness' of the Prius brakes, there was always the potential that differences between its brakes and the traditional brakes most are used to could lead to a collision.

At an intersection there was this bump. Going over that bump always triggered the braking delay in my gen2. The regen braking stops for a fraction of a second. During that time the car isn't decelerating, and might be accelerations since this all going down hill. For someone new to the car, or if a car ahead stops short, that fraction of a second can make a difference.

 

Again, I'm not denying that the affect exists and existed.

But as far as the Gen 2 Prius? Toyota never offered a software update. So while there are reports by some people of experiencing this momentary feeling under specific conditions, obviously Toyota feels it's acceptable. And with the volume of Gen 2 Prius sold and owned, evidently most Prius owners feel it is acceptable.

Yes brakes are important. And with the Gen 3 Toyota did react.- They offered the software update at a time when negative publicity was at a high. So Toyota did sacrifice and they did recognize the importance of improving the braking feel. Not denying that.

But beyond all that? It still was a software update that was a recalibration of how the brakes respond. Nothing more, nothing less.

Almost all of Fords updates are also simply "recalibrations". Given the simplicity of some of the supposedly heralded improvements....such as cutting the warm up time in half, as well as adding an additional 23 mph to the maximum electric only cruising speed, I still question why the vehicle was produced and released and THEN these seemingly obvious and undeniable baseline improvements are being retroactively applied. It does smack to me of a vehicle that was perhaps rushed into production.

 

That is entirely possible. It is also possible that Ford took a more conservative approach in regards to pushing system limits during the first year of the new model.

This is the first year Ford is using a lithium ion battery. Increased EV speed means more stress on it. The changes to the shutters and radiator fan speed means the entire engine bay is going to be hotter. It will improve efficiency, but will also expose component materials and fluids to the possibility of quicker degradation.

The decreased warm up time could mean higher start up emissions, and they wanted to be sure it hit they rating target they wanted.

The A/C compressor might have been set to provide the quickest amount of defogging originally.

It is possible that these were updates planned for the next model year or later when Ford had more real world data on how robust the new car subsystems were in the real world. The negative publicity and class action suits has forced them to speed up that timeline.

 

The brake issue affects a fraction of a second. It rarely happens under a specific condition. However, it is in the safety category so it should be seriously taken care of.

The MPG recalibration is a major change. I wouldn't be surprised if EPA requires Ford to retest the car because it would be a completely different car.

The equivalency to the regular car is if the existing model's 3rd gear redlines at 85 mph instead of 62 mph. Will Ford change the battery warranty period? Would the acceleration and other performances be different? Etc.

 

Fotomoto, thanks for the post. Gang, the gist of the updates that photomoto summarized sure sounds like five of the top ten recommendations I've read on this forum...for fixing the Prius! What we are seeing is competition. As a result, the gen4 Prius will be a much better offering than we would have seen if there were not several new hybrids on the market. Nuf said.