Ford Hybrid to be 300% more efficient..than prius.

If I am not mistaken, ultra-capacitor is already used in a Prius to capture the kinetic energy first. Then, the regulator gradually recharges the traction battery. You can't charge NiMH quickly. You have to use Ultra-cap to cature these kinetic energy in seconds. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

I'm encouraged by any real exploration of a large scale reduction in fuel consumption. Let's hope it's not spin, but instead real and working.

Can you just imagine what would happen if we really got serious about energy conservation and reducing consumption? I have for a lot of years now. It would be great to see this happen in a concerted national effort.

 

Oh, sorry. my mistake...
NiMH is about 85% efficiency, so the Ford system is 255% efficiency. WOW... :blink:

EDIT: If they say the loss is the one third, it looks OK. NiMH 85%(15% loss) -> hydraulic 95%(5% loss)
However, the 95% efficiency is questionable.

Ken@Japan

 

No, if you bled ALL the air out of a hydraulic system then it would
have no energy-storage capacity at all, because there has to be a
compressive element *someplace*. That's generally some volume of
gas, often isolated from the working fluid itself. The Prius brake
accumulator uses a cylinder of high-pressure nitrogen as the pressure
buffer that brake fluid is pumped against. In a collision that
happened to break open the hydraulic system then sure, the fluid
might be driven out of the system by the pressure behind it, but
it isn't likely to just ... explode.
.
But the point is that the working fluid itself *must* be for the
most part incompressible, or energy transfer through it becomes
less reliable and probably less efficient. In a hydraulic pressure
storage rig, it might not matter quite as much.
.
_H*

 

From John Miller, of kiloFarad.org:

"In an earlier work [1] it was noted that Toyota Motor Co.
has now introduced ultra-capacitor distributed modules into its
Prius-II hybrid electric vehicle as redundant power for its
electronically controlled brake system. The ECB back-up
module consists of 4 strings of 7-cells each for a combined 58F
at 16.1V maximum. The ECB distributed module in this
implementation is therefore capable of storing 0.93Wh of
standby energy for the brakes."

So you are right, but if I am reading this correctly, the ultracap is a backup device, rather than a storage device ?

 

The statement that Ford's hydraulic hybrid will be 300% more efficient than the Prius is a load of crap and an untruth, since they are only supposedly comparing the efficiency of energy storage AND NOT overall system. They conveniently are neglecting all the hydraulic pressure losses thru lines, valves, and regulators, plus the inefficiency of the hydraulic pumps and motors.

As others have pointed out, this system would be ideal for the frequent stop/go cycle of a garbage truck, but not for a passenger car. The accumulators would have to be huge to give a couple miles range, like the Prius can do in EV or stealth mode.

I would applaud Ford if they try it, but will it get 60 MPG?? Look at the frontal area and drag coefficient of an F-150, and I would say No Way. Maybe this article was just a "troll" to bait us PC members, so OK I fell for it!! :lol:

Infidel

 

I wouldn't touch anything that comes from Ford (especially with a claim like this). I mean, they still can't make a reliable internal combustion engine and now the claim is that they have a new vehicle more efficient than the Prius?

Cawf... cawf... Ya, right. First try making a reliable REGULAR vehicle, then I might look at a hybrid car from them a decade or so later.

 

NiMH can be charged quick enough. It'll certainly take as much charge as the little generator in the Prius can hand it out. No capacitors are needed (nor used for this, I'm pretty sure, but not positive!) I regularly stuff over 200A into my NiMH batteries in the Rav4 when I slow quickly. NiMH can be charged quite quickly right up until they're almost at 100%. Then, because of heat, the charge needs to be slowed.

 

I was confused by this article. Please read the fine print of the first figure (first line). Maybe it is talking about the next-gen Prius.

http://www.powermanagementdesignline.com/s...cleId=177101811

 

No. No ultracaps in the Prius. The inverter has some 600V
electrolytics connected across the 500V bus, but they have little
to do with the regen capacity. The NiMH cells can actually take
100A charge current when at their optimal temperature, which still
amazes the F* out of me, but I see it on my current meter all the
time in warmer weather. Not to say that that's the optimal charge
current for best efficiency, of course ... I actually try to limit
regen braking transfer to 50A if I've got the leisure to do so in
traffic conditions, to avoid excess component heating, but that's
not always possible especially at higher speeds.
.
There are some largish caps in the brake ECU power supply as sort
of a backup, but they're also ordinary electrolytics. They're
supposed to be able to continue powering the brake system long
enough for a safe stop in the event of total 12V power loss
otherwise, but that's completely orthogonal to the drive system.
.
_H*

 

:lol: you're definitely NOT one of the sheep, Tony

 

Of course I wasn't talking about bleeding the bladder inside the accumulator. I was talking about the trapped air in the hydraulic system itself ... caught in the fluid and plumbing. Bleeding that air out of the system isn't trivial. Pressurize the system ... exercise valves ... bleed it ... pressurize again ... exercise valves ... bleed it ... etc. Then, if there's even a tiny a leak somewhere - a valve, hose, or fitting - you have to repeat the process all over again once the leak is discovered and fixed. If you don't get all of the air out the valve control gets squirrely and unpredictable. Then, we have bad accumulators where the bladder or piston (depending on the design) wears and leaks.

Drive down the road and a hose or fitting fails... hey it happens ... you've just dumped 60 gallons of fluid all over the undercarriage and the highway. You don't even need an accident. I'm not talking about an explosion, but I wouldn't want to be sitting directly over a 5,000 PSI accumulator if there was a hose failure. I envision one of those high-pressure water cutters they use to cut stone ... at least for a few seconds.

Lastly, what are we talking about adding - weight-wise - to the vehicle? A thousand pounds or more?

 

The Boeing 787 is 5000 psi, previoius Boeings are 3000 psi. Hopefully the ailerons and rudder and elevators won't get affected by busted tubes.

 

I'd buy a Ford Hybrid that got 300% the efficiency of the Prius... My husband would be really glad, because I'm sure they'd come up with something efficient that can tow at that point.

I have to admit I'm as much skeptical as I am hopeful

 

If this can get 60mph.. the same technology would get 100mph in a prius.

 

Sheesh, the author can't even understand that "3X" is a "200% increase" instead of the "300% increase" claimed. I wouldn't believe a word this shill says.

 

From hybridcars.com, it says 36% is almost the same as the figure Toyota quotes for the Prius II. I suspect the Hydraulic Hybrid article means the F150 has no energy loss in this cycle and is therefore 100% efficient. That is, all of the energy stored from braking or excess engine energy can be used later to power the truck. 100% / 36% = 2.8X which could round to 3X or 300% of the effeciency of the Prius.

Just to echo KTPhil, the Prius has 1X or 100% of the effeciency of itself, so 3X - 1X = 2X or 200% more effeciency.