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Ford Hybrids' Fuel Economy Failing To Live Up To EPA Ratings?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by jsfabb, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. jsfabb

    jsfabb Active Member

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    Walter Lee - I love the knowledge and insight you provide to this forum, but can you please use more paragraphs? It makes for a much easier read! ;)

    Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
     
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The group of drivers are surely different. More lead feet will lead to a lower average. Which would be compounded by the C-max's heavier weight.

    I was wondering how many Prius v drivers already owned or spent some time with a hybrid previously, and how many C-max ones are new hybrids?
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    My experience for the past 18 months driving over the continental divide every week is that the 1.8L ICE in the Lexus CTh or the Prius v (wagon) is easier to DWL than the 2004 G2 Prius that has a 1.5L ICE.

    I'm sure the specific terrain matters. I usually have enough road before the next hill to gain speed.
     
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    This is why I tend to look for highway reports with reported driving speeds -- less driver effect on the fuel economy result.

    Car weight has little effect if the friction brakes are not being used.
     
  5. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    My 2012 Prius III/3 is rated 50 mpg. Got it April 2012, start of summer fuel season, my summer average was about 54 mpg. Winter fuel started, conditions got wet and windy, my winter average is now 45 mpg.

    Plus/Minus 10% of rated seems to be the summer/winter range on hybrids.

    C-MAX 47 mpg would be 52/42 mpg. So I'd expect to see reports of 42 mpg for consumes getting CMAX now.

    My 2009 Ford Escape hybrid AWD got it's rated mileage with about the same variation. Folks with current Ford Fusion hybrids seem to make rated mileage also.
     
  6. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    Several years back, I had trouble modulating throttle control while doing DWL on a 2nd gen Prius (rental from Enterprise) on the superhighway (PA/OH turnpike, clear day, between 50mph to 65 mph with a target speed of 55 mph ) trying to use the energy arrow display ( I didn't have a ScangaugeII then). The ScangaugeII xgauge GPH and RPM gauge makes DWL alot easier cause I know NOT JUST that the engine is running BUT how hard the engine is working; the 3rd gen Prius HSI display will do in a pinch. The 3rd gen Prius HSI display is a signficant improvement over the 2nd gen Prius energy monitor - which is almost useless. I got decent mpg ( about 55 mpg) on the 2nd gen Prius on the superhighway but I was really hoping for something like 65 mpg or more at the time - which got me really disappointed and thinkin' "Why can't I duplicate the results posted on Cleanmpg.com??? "
     
  7. PlugInPriusNH

    PlugInPriusNH Junior Member

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    The C-max was DESIGNED to get high ratings on the EPA ratings, not real life numbers if you drive on a highway. The EPA MAX speed for testing is 60mph. The electric motor works up to 62mph..... so if you drive 65 you aren't going to get anywhere near the EPA rating. Even at going from 61 to 63mph you are going to see a drop from like ~49mpg down to ~39mpg.
     
  8. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Your belief may be different if you had kept the stock wheels and stayed with the same tire width and rotation per mile.

    I doubt more Ford owners do more short trips.
     
  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The last time I checked, Prius liftback weights between non-hybrid Corolla and Camry.
     
  10. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Energi highway is rated 41 MPG which looks more reasonable
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I know better than to compete with Wayne Gerdes. What were you thinking ?

    The power meter in the G3 Prius really is quite good; I just make slight mental adjustments if the battery SOC is low or high. A work-around for the lack of a power meter or external gauge is to use the ratio of mpg/mph. I would shoot for 0.5 - 0.7ish to gain speed or when going up a hill.
     
  12. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    seriously guys, we have ex Prius drivers telling you the same thing in other threads, but you still dont believe it?

    Thats just silly.
     
  13. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    A bit obtuse...are you saying the Prius drivers are getting 42 mpg in winter driving of CMAX's?
     
  14. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Ex-Prius driver is better per-se than new hybrid driver, but it is hardly in and of itself a ringing endorsement.
     
  15. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    no I am saying that person when who drove prius for years tells you that they get 39 mpg vs 48 in Prius, you will ask them if their tires are under inflated.

    I am saying that there are 20 articles about over inflated mpg and that you still are trying to make up excuses.

    I am saying that it will only get a lot worse once more people get them and start getting low 30's due to Winter time.
     
  16. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    That would be a problem for Ford if its 2nd generation 2013 Fusion and CMAX hybrids don't live up to 47 mpg rating, plus/minus 10% winter/summer.

    Especially considering their 1st generation models did meet their mpg ratings.
     
  17. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Prior hybrid experience isn't necessarily a good thing when driving the new hybrid. My Gen3's early numbers were disappointing because it does not drive like the Gen2. I would be very surprised if Gen3 experience gets optimum performance out of the Ford.

    "I know better than to compete with Wayne Gerdes. What were you thinking?"

    I'm thinking I'm invited to a butt kicking contest--mine.

     
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Regen only captures a fraction of the energy used for acceleration.
    It's a heavier car. If the drivers tend on the quicker side for accelerating, That weight is going to have more effect on fuel economy in stop and go traffic.
     
  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    You seem to be repeating what I posted.

    At 65 mph, tyre RR is about 20% of total power, and RR is proportional to mass. So a 10% increase in mass will increase power demand by 2%, or about a 1 mpg decrease for a decent hybrid.

    Even differences in dry roads will give more variation, so as I said earlier, the extra weight in highway driving is hardly noticeable.
     
  20. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    2001 Toyota Prius - Road Test - Car Reviews - Car and Driver
    Seems car magazines have been getting much worse than epa on hybrid cars for a long long time.
    Yep, and it seems like you need to drive the ford hybrids like hybrids to get the best fuel economy. It likely is different to get the most out of it than a gen II though, as each car has its own quirks.