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Ford Hybrids' Fuel Economy Failing To Live Up To EPA Ratings?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by jsfabb, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    obviously it is not the same, not enough data.. quite possibly Ford drivers dont know how to drive Hybrids while Lexus drivers do.
     
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Have we had reports from the Lexus ES hybrid Drivers? I haven't heard of any. Since the hybrid has a lot less hp than the regular ES, I would expect that drivers would drive as unhybrid like as the energi, although it is an older demographic. City mileage is supposed to be twice as much in the hybrid es than the es350, I find that hard to believe if they are driven the same way.:)

    I expect the fusion and es hybrids to sell well.
     
  3. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    it gets about the same mpg as Camry Hybrid in real life :)
     
  4. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Only review I could quickly find with mpg -
    Test Drive: Lexus ES stylish, comfy, annoying

    I expect those choosing the hybrid to get significantly better in the Lexus than the press:) But I'm sure if this was a ford, we would be seeing the bad numbers plastered everywhere.

    YMMV.

    I expect the ford drivers will not get as close to epa as prii drivers, but that would not be my expectation with lexus drivers. Small numbers of respondants on on fuelly or fueleconomy.gov are also biased, although I'm sure its easier to exceed epa in a ct200 than a prius.
     
  6. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Give it time, most people buying the new Ford Hybrid are first time Hybrid owners. Especially the C-max buyers. My new Fusion is slowly increasing MPG, it has been cold here, so true numbers are hard to get, plus the car has less than 500 miles on it. So far I got a little over 40 MPG on a 36 mile trip, both ways. For comparison, the same trip in my 2010 Fusion Hybrid nets about 38 in the same conditions. This weekend shows to be near 60*, so I can get a better idea if this car can get EPA. I am also still learning the transitions and pedal pressure, It is a totally different car than the earlier model, and takes some relearning due to the EV running at highway speeds. It has a smaller motor than the 2010, and tends to use more fuel at certain speeds than I am accustomed to with the 2010. I can easily keep the gauge around 40 in the 10, but the 13, either due to the way it works, or because its still new, barely reaches 30 MPG on the gauge on the same roads. It appears to rely more on a light touch than the other car.

    My FIL has a new C-max and has been getting 43 consistently, weather has been cold, and he lives in a hilly area, and I know I have a hard time getting anything decent in the FFH around there due to the hills. This is his first Hybrid, and he is getting pretty good numbers considering that fact.
     
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  7. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    It took me 11 months & 12315 miles to get the 2006's lifetime FE up to 50mpg. When bought in 2006 the EPA rating was 50mpg. I thought it was a joke when the EPA lowered it to 45mpg. So, should a Ford owner expect to hit EPA? My answer is yes, if willing to work at it & learn.

    Everyone does not optimize their Prius for FE. Nor will all Ford drivers. Will those that don't, whine? Yes.
     
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  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Fueleconomy.gov shows the 2006's original label as 51 Highway / 60 City / 55 Combined.
     
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Use of that test cycle would I imagine put the C-max at 52 mpg combined. Oh, the wailing that would ensue ..
     
  10. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Owners report Ford's latest hybrids don't live up to 47-mpg claims
     
  11. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    That will not matter to fuelly or the US government. Now if the odometer is wrong, that would matter.

    The Prius Liftback and v both over estimate MPG, but fuelly uses the odometer and Gas pump gallons, not the Prius Computer.
     
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I would say its more likely we have a big problem with accurately using fuelly. We don't know who lies. We don't know how they drive. So a quick check of c-max has a high of 55 and a low of 21.7. Did some joker really get 21.7 with his two fill ups of 15 gallons of gas? Did they type wrong, or did they want to pull the stats down?

    The fusion hybrid has a whopping 2 cars. One has a high of 45 the other 47. Its december. YMMV

    You get sued when you cheat on the test. I don't think CR is doing anyone any favors when the call 39 mpg in a prius c real world, then accuse ford of cheating. CR is welcome to run the test:)

    Fuelly is not the real world, nor if fuel economy.gov. If someone wanted to they could make any car look bad. Lets give it a year and wait for some real results. In the mean time I do hope the epa does test all the ford cars to clear its name, or get it in trouble;)
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Right you are. My bad.
     
  14. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Well, my first fill on my FFH of the new model returned a measly 35.95 MPG. My 2010 OTOH has been consistently in between 37 and 41 MPG depending on weather, traffic and right foot(or who drives).

    However, I may have found the reason, at least on my car, for the underwhelming achievements, the car has Goodyear Eagle tires on it, and as far as I know, they aren't well known for their fuel efficiency.
     
  15. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    I hope it gets better for you. One fill is not a good baseline.
     
  16. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Well I did some research and found out its the tires that is giving me less than stellar FE. The Car cam e with Premium wheels of the 18" variety, which means they have Goodyear Eagle tires, and not the Energy Savers that are standard on the Hybrid, hence, 35 MPG instead of 47 MPG. A couple guys said, tires make that much difference? And at least a few here know, YEP!
     
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  17. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    For 6 yrs I had a nearly perfect EPA-testing-conditions commute. In my 2005 Gen II I drove 75 miles each way on dead flat terrain, at sea level, at 53-63 mph with very few stops ( key point ). The weather was normally temperate so I didn't take too much of a hit in winter. I did not make any hypermiling adjustments and might even have been too lead-footed in getting away from the few lights I encountered.

    For over 150,000 miles I averaged 47.5 mpg, hand-recording every tank and fillup. I was very comfortable that I would always exceed the revised EPA values in 2009.

    However... I was able to note the
    • -5+% penalty for driving with extra weight outside of myself...
    • -10% penalty in winter driving.... 43-45 mpg
    • -10% penalty for driving in the rain... 43-45 mpg
    • -20% penalty for driving >70 mph.... 40-42 mpg
    • -20% penalty for stop and go driving... 40-43 mpg
    • -30% penalty for short trips... 35-39 mpg
    • +5% gain when driving in Spring and Fall... 51-53 mpg
    • +20% gain for driving smoothly <42 mph .... with NO stops... 55-60 mpg

    Some of these are cumulative, winter, weight and high-speed driving for example. OTOH the short trip penalty carries far more weight than all the others and is almost impossible to overcome.


    My view is that conditions play such a significant factor in determining the true fuel economy of a vehicle that a much larger sample from all areas of the country and an entire year's data ( or more ) are needed to verify how the Fords perform.
     
  18. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Yes they do, however when you take into consideration one driver with two cars, doing the same trip in the same weather conditions and get much better FE in the older car than the newer car that is rated at much higher EPA, and only getting lower then the older car, has to be something else. So far everything is pointing to the non LRR tires that were installed on the 2013. The Eagle LS-2 tires are sport performance tires, designed for handling, not fuel efficiency.

    I can tell they have high resistance when I let off the throttle, the car slows down much quicker than the other hybrids I have driven. All three hybrids prior to this one had LRR tires.

    If I can swap wheels between the 10 and 13, I can pretty much determine if I am right.
     
  19. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say swapping the tires will not net you 47 mpg's.
    If you do decide to do it, we need to make sure to take the circumference of the tires into account for computing mpg. If you swap to a smaller circumference tire all your gages will be off (including odometer). I don't know how you'll be able to reliably calculate mpg unless you us a GPS or use the milemarkers to determine the error on your odometer.
     
  20. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Prius is offered with 15" or 17" wheels and tires width 195 mm or 215 mm. Real-world figure remains close to 50 MPG.
     
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