Ford Hybrids' Fuel Economy Failing To Live Up To EPA Ratings?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by jsfabb, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It's a -0.28% difference, or at 100mph speedometer reading, he will be actually going 99.72. Has I suggested in the other thread, see if you find a Fusion owner with the 17" wheel set willing to switch.

    Are the OEM tires for both LRR? It seems the LRR selection for 18" rims in the OEM size for the Fusion is slim.
     
  2. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Yes, I believe so. I thought car manufacturers are supposed to test MPG with the worse case option(s).

    I thought that was the reason why Prius is not offered with both Solar sunroof and 17" wheels.
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    If you notice in the example the driver used lrr 17s versus normal not low rolling resistance 18s.

    F8L will be happy to tell you that if you put 18 inch non low rolling resistance tires on a prius, you will lose a great deal of efficiency. Toyota seemed to be saying about a 5% hit for the 5 with 17 inch low rolling resistance. You can probably add at least another 10% hit for 18s in normal tires.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Which Vehicles Are Tested
    It appears wheel size, and for trucks, differential ratio, is excluded from the possible combinations for the EPA testing. I think manufacturers tend to test what will be the most common option made/sold in terms of wheels and diffs. Those are likely what the prototype is anyway.

    Japan regulations might require testing with the different wheels. i do remember seeing such a break down of fuel economy results. Which would explain the Camry hybrid LE and XLE entries at fueleconomy.gov, since I assume the drivetrains are the same. Someone at Toyota may have ran the tests and submitted the results without knowing it wasn't required for the US agency.
     
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  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Thanks for the info.

    Perhaps Toyota did that so XLE owners won't complain about not getting EPA figures. The combined difference is only 1 MPG but the City rating differs by 3 MPG.

    Smart move by Toyota. I think Ford should have done the same.
     
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I agree here. Although I'm not sure if its altruistic. I don't know if toyota knew at the time whether the xle or le hybrid would sell better.

    Either way, it helps credibility to give more information instead of less. Honda with the battery fiasco on hybrids, changing SOC instead of replacing batteries which hurts mpg - and hyundai cheating on the test hurts.

    The new XLE does much better than the previous TCH. Get the information out there and let the customers choose. Ford should do this as well, and give reviewers the low rolling resistance 17s. Let them judge the handling with the proper tire for fuel economy in a hybrid. Or give them both to review.
     
  7. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    do you think Toyota is run by monkeys?

    Toyota has for quite a while now submitted different numbers for hybrids equipped with different wheels and that weight differently... In Europe they do the same almost for most of their hybrids, and it is still not required... I think they might be only ones in Europe rating equipment differently.
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They are primates.

    If they feel spending the money on the tests is of benefit to them, spend away.

    Wheel size should probably be another variable for the combinations that require testing, or at least be specified somewhere what wheel and tire was used for the test. I don't see it becoming a test requirement because of the ease at which the consumer can change them.
     
  9. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    That is exactly what I was considering. Using my TOMTOM for the MPH, and knowing the miles to work and back for the calculations.

    However, one indicator that I could use, and not have to go by the miles, or anything else, is the drag on the car. Right now, I lift my foot, the car slows down, take it completely off and it really slows down. The 2010, I lift my foot and the car keeps moving, take it off the pedal and the car gradually slows down. Pretty sure this drag I am feeling is whats preventing me from getting anywhere near EPA.
     
  10. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Drive Time review of the all-new 2013 Ford C-MAX Hybrid SE

    Published on Dec 12, 2012
     
  11. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

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    EPA to investigate

    Ford talks to EPA about fuel economy testing amid mileage controversy | Digital Trends

    According to Ford the extra hp means that the drivers are more likely to drive the FH faster than Prius drivers who have less power at their disposal.

    At another recent article

    Ford & EPA Try To Figure Out Why C-Max, Fusion Aren’t Getting Advertised MPG – The Consumerist

    Ford mechanics claim that cold weather and driving at 75 mph regularly could account for up to 17 mpg less. I would be surprised if that difference isn't closer to 10 (rather than 17) mpg.
     
  12. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    *cough* bull$--t*cough* Love the excuses already coming out. In a few days I should have a good enough answer to post here regarding how Ford will treat customers with their new Hybrids.
     
  13. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

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    I don't know I can make my Prius get less than 40 mpg fairly easily. A difference of 17 mpg is really exaggerated though.
     
  14. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    I did get 30 in the Prius once, but it was only because it took forever to get up that hill.
     
  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Start it up on a hot day. Go on a 3 mile trip on a 65 mph highway with hills and AC. You will never get close 40 mpg. That's how I do it - actual trip that pulls my average down. Some folks up north can tell you how to do it in the cold with short trips. My record low was 17 mpg on a 5 mile trip in a trafic jam with 100 degree temperatures, but that is a special case.

    car and driver describes how they got 32 mpg in the fusion with 18" wheels, and 30 mpg in the camry hybrid with 17" wheels. Now one is 15 mpg off, the other is 10 mpg off, prius c 11 mpg off. Quite easy to do with that extra power and 75mph speeds. With the prius liftback it kind of fights acceleration and high speeds and good aerodynamics so they got closer to epa on that one.
     
  16. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I never run the AC for the first 3 minutes on a hot day. Open windows are more effective.

    Can we have a scenario where the conduct is rational ?
     
  17. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

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    On a -10F morning, where the windows are not frosted but frozen over, turn the car on with heater, defroster and heated seats on while scraping the windows clean, then drive 4 miles to work.

    Is that a bit more rational? If you do that regularly, you will get below 40MPG.
     
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  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    yep. Mirrors my experience too
     
  19. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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    Before the "revised" EPA numbers, my Prius never got the sticker mileage.
     
  20. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Here is the word from Ford Corporate. 47 is an ESTIMATED number, IE we really doubt you will see it, but if you do, you got estimated MPG. :LOL:

    In order to get 47 Highway, you need to drive it at 50 MPH with the Adaptive Cruise control. If you drive any faster, you may not get 47 MPG, or even 40.

    If you dont use the Adaptive Cruise Control, Which I should point out, not all of the Fusion Hybrids come with it (Me thinks Ford needs to get their S*** together, since I think they actually mean the Eco Cruise and not the ACC), then you most likely will not get near EPA results.

    IOW, what I am getting, is what I should be getting. WTFlyfishing? I get better in my 2010 FFH without using Cruise at all!

    Yeah, Right Ford, guess what, you will get a crap load of heat on this one, so they had better be prepared for the slopstorm headed their way.

    So, drive the FFH under 55 on the highways if you want to get EPA, and you better be using Cruise, or forgetaboutit.
     
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