Ford Implements Strategies to Lower Cost of Hybrids

Except that unless Lincoln buyers are people with more money than sense the MSRP is not so relevant, what matters is what they paid for it.

The other thing is that the MKZ hybrid has best-in-class fuel economy, which means that it's liable to have reasonable sales anyway. You just need to look at the sales numbers for the RX 450h and CT 200h to see that luxury hybrids can sell.

 

I've been shaking my head whenever I see the fuel economy numbers of 3.5 ecoboost equipped car. Until I realized it's a replacement for a V8, not a V6. In the F150, it does a little better than the base V6 in economy while putting out the performance of the 6L V8.

While I would have preferred Ford introducing the 1.2 ecoboost in the Fiesta before the 3.5, performance still sells more vehicles than fuel economy.

 

It was widely reported in the media and both by Toyota and ford that no money changed hands. The deal happened years ago. If money was going back and forth this reporting by ford would be an SEC violation. Why do you two pretend there is something secret and sinister.

USB your reading of the changes from TRW is simply a detail of the new patents. I have no idea who thought of it first, but if both companies did separately it would be a quite expensive lawsuit for toyota, and one that it was not likely to win. We do know that ford did decide to use toyota's psd vendor and followed more of the details of the Toyota design than their own. I think the licensing deal was in the best interests of both companies, and both have improved designs since the cross licensing agreement.

Now can we get rid of the false assertion that ford is currently paying toyota for hybrid patents and move on.

 

I don't think many americans would buy a 1.2L engine

The ecoboost V6 actually has more torque than the base ford V8 in the F150. Ford could boost it even more with a flywheel motor and lithium battery. The F150 is the best selling vehicle in North America, I think that a good many would pay for its hybrid version if it both boosted acceleration and fuel economy.

 

It's supposedly slated for the Fiesta refresh in a couple years, and the Taurus is getting the 2.0 next year.

 

such report was never released because toyota and ford did not say anything about money. But I find it ridiculous that Toyota would license their most important technology achievement, for free, or some un-named diesel patent that Toyota never used nor does Ford have anything better when it comes to diesels compared to Toyota.

 

Speculation started when the licensing occured in 2004

Ford to Use Toyota's Hybrid Technology - NYTimes.com

but the money involved, has been commented a number of times by ford. Ford also routinely clarifies what it is getting for its patents

Toyota Builds Thicket of Patents Around Hybrid To Block Competitors - WSJ.com

Ford and toyota have both made progress since 2004 and this has not been shared, but toyota has had years to comment on no money changing hands. They have never said anything to contradict Fords statements.

You can have the opinion that toyota got a bad deal, but they are not getting cash from ford for these patents. They are selling parts to nissan and making money that way. Nissan does not like the terms and developed their own hybrid system.

 

Why would they, I dont think Toyota is in the business of boasting but rather of making money? What also contradicts those statements is that we already know that Ford is using Aisin for PSD and Panasonic for batteries, so much about "100% Ford-developed and engineered" and different "execution and architecture".

 

The Fiesta has a 1.6

 

Your like the kid in the back of the class continuing to argue 2 + 2 = 5.

Toyota has released numerous press releases. They boast all the time about the patents on the prius and licensing deals. You said there was no information. I gave to links. Continue to believe what you want to believe that ford is cutting Toyota big checks in secret if you want. But you don't have a shread of evidence to focus those beliefs on.

Ford and Toyota have cross licensed the patents. Both have used Aisin for psd parts. Having the same supplier does not mean that one company designs the part and the other company uses it. Toyota now manufactures its own psd for the gen III prius. Ford in the article is saying they are going to be building their own psd in future hybrds as a cost cutting measure. The fussion departs in meaningful ways from the original design. Aisin also makes the transmission for the GM silvarado. Do you think Toyota designed that too?

Toyota's mostly owned subsidary bought ford's battery supplier. This was after the batteries were designed. Ford and other automakers are moving away from sanyo as it is now owned by Panasonic.

 

Currently.
I was lazy in my previous post. The Fiesta will, hopefully, be getting the 1.2L ecoboost as an option in the future. My guess is the 2013 MY will be the earliest.

 

Cross-licensing is still licensing HSD from Toyota right? Instead of paying with money, Ford paid with another patent.

 

By that reasoning Toyota paid as well.

 

There were multiple players traded, which suited both teams, but the Tigers had to cough up some prospects even out the deal.

 

Right, so Toyota licenses Ford's diesel emission technology and Ford licenses Toyota's hybrid technology. I think we all can agree to that, right?

 

I've got no complaints with any of it really. More hybrids = better hybrids = more competition = cheaper hybrids = more, better, cheaper hybrids!

 

My father used to work for Ford and in 1995 they already had a significant hybrid program underway, but by 1996 Toyota had already beaten Ford to the patent office. This could be Ford internal BS, but they claimed they had developed much of the same technology as Toyota on their own at that time, but with too many potential patent infringements they were in talks with Toyota about licensing before 1996.

 

Agree.

The issue, pet peeve really, is with flat, sound bite statement, "Ford licensed Toyota hybrid system." Without the rest of the context it leaves the listener/reader believing Ford's hybrids are in the same boat with Nissan Altima. That they didn't develope anything, and just got it all from Toyota, when the reality is quite different.

 

Well, it may be the case but I don't know if that's better or not.

You see, the first Ford hybrid (Escape hybrid) came out in 2004. Toyota brought Prius to US in 2000 (as 2001 model) but Prius was available in Japan since 1997. Toyota got the major Prius patents issued by USPTO from 1994 to 1996.

Ford developed their hybrid on their own while Prius' patents are available (even on internet) all this time. It doesn't make Ford look good. They could have used 2001 Prius to reverse engineer it, just saying.

Anyway, I like how Ford packaged the hybrid transaxle and inverter as a single unit. I like how they are moving forward with Lithium HV battery with their next gen hybrids. I can't wait to find out the cost differences.

 

I know it doesn't look good, and the delays in the Escape hybrid's release didn't help. Ford was part of the US govt. program that spurred Toyota on to develop the Prius. So their history with hybrids started then. I think internal politics and inertia kept on the back burner until Honda and Toyota came to market. They very well may have taken a Prius apart. Competitors do that. It be how they realized there might be infringement issues.