FORD revises MPG for 6 cars

C-Max and Leaf are in the same midsize class. Jetta is a compact.

A better comparison for Jetta is Focus EV.

 

Well in any case... greenercars.org lists the Jetta Wagon TDI as 45% greenscore versus 38% for the Tesla EV, and that supports your claim that electrics are not really as clean as people believe:
greenercars.org | the best small wagons

 

EVs are not that clean. When Leaf came out it was worse than 50 MPG Prius in most of the states. 2013 model made improvements and the grid got cleaner so now it has slight lead even on PiP.

Tesla sure made it sound like it is cleaner than Prius. The SuperCharger was marketed as powered by the sun when in fact it is from the grid.

 

Troy, why is it you're always in an argument? Do you just love that?

 

The Greek philosophers believed a healthy debate will eventually lead to the truth. The U.S. Founders thought speech should remain uncensored for the same reason.

 

It is all in how you power it. When my Leaf is powered from my 10KW solar array, it is way cleaner than any gasser, Prius included.

If you can buy a Tesla, you can buy solar. Every Tesla owner I know has at least some solar at home.

 

They also came up with words that amount to saying: it is a waste of time to argue for arguments sake, unless you are trying to teach us the elements of spin, BS, and trolling. In which case I suppose I should thank you, but years of same is boring.

 

Healthy means looking closely at the data and no assumptions.

 

But if you don't know how to interpret the data like it seems you often don't, then that's not healthy.

 

I find this argument way more wrong than right. The PV you use from your array to power your EV is PV that your neighbor would use if you had a Prius. Now that your neighbor cannot use that PV, he uses dirty energy instead.

 

No he uses dirtier than solar natural gas energy but still cleaner than coal. Very little of our power is coal, especially true since the only coal plant had a fire a couple months ago and will be completely offline until 2015.

And I do have a Prius, it sits there for the weekends. If he wants to try and run his SUV off of PV, go ahead.

If your argument is that the best efficiency should win, I still win driving the Leaf off of pure grid around here.

 

Right, so your LEAF runs on NG rather than the petroleum a Prius consumes.

Good choice. I just want to point out that PV cleans up a dirty grid and does not go to waste until someone buys an EV.

 

No doubt EVs would be cleaner with solar panels but at a cost. 10kW panels would cost $50k installed. Not practical for the mainstream. A mainstream plugin needs to be clean using regular grid electricity. PiP achieved that. Energi models are not cleaner than the regular hybrid models.

I think a lot of owners end up selling solar RECs to recoup the cost of the panels, giving up the claim of "solar powered".

However, he can mislead and say I have an EV and solar panels without giving details of what he did with SREC. Others would assume his EV is powered by solar. In truth, it is powered by the grid.

 

10KW for $50? Way out of the ballpark there. And backfeeding surplus in the day and then buying back at night from coal or natural gas is still to me solar. If my meter spins net backwards, I am running on solar.

 

We in california - largest PV state - do not get REC's .... so you can't just PRESUME that lots of PV owners are selling off REC's. We recoup our costs via lower / extinguished electric bills.
.

 

He did say 'lots'.

I don't see the point though. REC or not, PV is clean generated electricity. Where it is used is completely besides the point and suffers from the same logical fallacy as the PV owner who then buys an EV and thinks s/he had made a sound environmental decision.

 

What's a REC? In California some companies are pushing to pay customers only 1-2 cents/solar kilowatthour. So you give them cheap clean energy & they sell fossil fuel energy back to you at 15 cents.

True..... however by choosing to support a solar-power company, you give them more profit & they can invest it in more solar power. Then maybe someday the neighbor will check "solar power" on his energy choice bill.

 

Renewable energy credit.
I'll presume you can google 'Renewable energy credit' for further enlightenment.

 

Thanks. Rather than spend money on solar panels I'd rather spend the money on a Passive House which doesn't need heating or cooling electricity. Just lights, TVs, and other lowpower items. Getting energy use as close to zero as possible is the ultimate goal. My great-grandparents had no electricity at all & survived just fine (self-sufficient).

Guess I won't be buying a 45 mpg Fiesta any time soon (since they no longer exist). Maybe the 43mpg version, or a 44mpg Mitsubishi. (sigh) You'd think by now someone would make a 50 mpg car (highway). It can't be that difficult.

Let me google that for you