Freedom of Speech is Dead

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Devil's Advocate, May 10, 2007.

  1. Devil's Advocate

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    922
    10
    1
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I can't believe this topic was closed!
    http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=33006&st=0
    Is it really so offensive??
    Should everything someone finds offensive be shut down?
    Is that what it means to be open minded?

    Who isn't offended by something?

    I mean Breasts for cryin out loud, or better yet...

    Angel Cakes Double-Whammies Loaves PT Boats
    Apples Dueling Banjos Loblollies Pumpkins
    Balboas Dugs Love Melons Rangoons
    Balloons Dumplings Love Muffins Rib Balloons
    Bangers Dunes Lulus Rib Cushions
    Bangles Ear Muffs Macaroons Rivets
    Bassoons Eclairs Mambos Roundies
    Rack
    Baubles Eggplants Mammaries Sandbags
    Bazongas Enchiladas Mammies Satellites
    Bazookas Flapjacks Mams Scones
    Bazooms Flappers Mangos Scoops
    Beacons Flesh Bulbs Marangos Set
    Beanbags Flesh Melons Maraschinos Shakers
    Bebops Floaters Marimbas Shebas
    Betty Boops Floats Mau Maus Shimmies
    Big Boppers Fog Lights Mausers Silos
    BigUns
    Bikini Stuffers Fried Eggs Meatballs Skin Sacks
    Billibongs Fun Bags Meat Loaves Skooners
    Blinkers Gagas Melons Smoothies
    Bombers Garbos Milk Cans Snuggle Pups
    Bombshells Gazingas Milk Fountains Spark Plugs
    Bonbons Gazongas Milk Shakes Specials
    Bongos Glands Molehills Spheres
    Bonkers Globelets Mommas Spongecakes
    Boobers Globes Mondos Spuds
    Boobies Gob Stoppers Montezumas Stacks
    Boobs Gongas Moo Moos Stuffing
    Boops Goombas Mother Lodes Sugarplums
    Bops Grapefruits Mounds Sweater Meat
    Bosom Grillwork Mountain Peaks Sweater Puffs
    Sweater Puppies
    Boulders Guavas Muchachas Sweet Rolls
    Bouncers Gum Drops Muffins Tahitis
    Bra Buddies Handsets Mulligans Tamales
    Bra Stuffers Hand Warmers Mushmelons Tartugas
    Bronskis Headers Nancies Tatas
    Bubbas Headlamps Nectarines Tattlers
    Bubbies Headlights Niblets Teats
    Buds Headphones Nibs Tetons
    Bulbs Headsets Nippeloons Thangs
    Bulges Hefties Nippelos Thingamajigs
    Bullets Heifers Nippers Tidbits
    Bumpers Hemispheres Nippies Titbits
    Bumps Hills Nips Tits
    Bust Hindenburgs Nodes Titskis
    Busters Honeydews Nodules Titters
    Busties Honkers Noogies Titties
    Butterballs Hood Ornaments Nose Cones Tomatoes
    Buttons Hoohas Oompas Tooters
    Caboodles Hooters Orbs Torpedoes
    Cannon Balls Hot Cakes Ottomans Tortillas
    Cantaloups Hottentots Padding Totos
    Carumbas Howitzers Pagodas Twangers
    Casabas Hubcaps Pair Tweakers
    Cha-Chas Huffies Palookas Tweeters
    Charlies Humdingers Papayas Twin Peaks
    Chihuahuas Hush Puppies Parabolas Twofers
    Chimichongas ICBM's Pastries Tympanies
    Chiquitas Jawbreakers Paw Patties U-Boats
    Coconuts Jemimas Peaches Umlauts
    Congas Jibs Peakers Wahwahs
    Corkers Jobbers Peaks Waldos
    Jubblies
    Creamers Jugs Pears Warheads
    Cream Pies Jukes Pects Water-Melons
    Cuhuangas Jumbos Peepers Whoppers
    Cupcakes Kabukis Pillows Wind-Jammers
    Curves Kalamazoos Pips Wobblers
    Dingers Kazongas Plums WOngas
    Dinghies Kazoos Pointer-Sisters Woofers
    Dingos Knobbers Points Yabbos
    Dirigibles Knockers Pokers Yams
    Domes Kongas Polygons Yayas
    Doodads Kumquats Pompons Zeppelins
    Doozers Lactoids Pontoons Zingers
    Doozies Lip Fodder Potatoes
     
  2. ozyran

    ozyran New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    695
    1
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Devil's Advocate")</div>
    You see, a mindset like your post, Advocate, is why I refuse to return to Las Vegas, Nevada. I lived there for about 7 years and I am relieved not to live there.

    And also, I can pick and choose which threads to browse through. I can't avoid seeing an avatar until it's too late. And personally, as some don't like being forced into religion, I don't like having to be visually assaulted by what is clearly an offensive avatar. The First Amendment is your friend, not something you can use to shove tasteless images in someone's face.

    And yes, I know I could have refrained from posting. HOWEVER, the thread title is deceptive, and I do believe that your liberties should not infringe on my rights.
     
  3. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    2,217
    7
    0
    No one has a constitutional right to free speech here. This is a private message board. The mods can censor anything they want.
     
  4. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    2,191
    538
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Dry up already. Your list has numerous conspicuous absences, which by their very absence make your "argument" a vacuous crock.

    And even if "free speech" were even a legitimate issue here (which it isn't), why defend gratuitous offensiveness?

    It's one thing to be offensive as a rhetorical instrument of argument, the way a Sam Harris or a Richard Dawkins will methodically dismember common religious beliefs, but quite another to be offensive for no other reason than to be as irritating as possible to the widest possible audience. The first may be hard to live with, but the latter we can all live without.

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  5. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    1,690
    6
    0
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Once again the lack of education shines through.

    "Freedom of Speech" only applies to limits the GOVERNMENT puts on speech.

    You have no such rights in a private place, whether it's a private house or a private forum.
     
  6. tag

    tag Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    2,526
    18
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ May 10 2007, 07:41 PM) [snapback]439581[/snapback]</div>
    In fact, YES, it is. Just ask anyone who happens to read this board in an office environment or otherwise at work.

    Also (and I'll readily admit I'm not all that knowledgeable in this area at the outset) there's a program called WinHex with which even I have been able to recover tons of images that have been viewed or downloaded.......and that INCLUDES the likes of avatars and images posted on boards such as this one. If you already are aware of the foregoing, I apologize for the repetition. If not, you should check out some free forensic-type software floating around, install it, and see what you can recover. It's about as disturbing as it is amazing.

    In fact, almost all of the images I was able to recover on my computers were completely unrecognizable to me; I couldn't figure out from whence they came. They certainly didn't appear to be associated with anything I had downloaded or viewed. But then I realized that almost all of the images had been "automatically" cached from sites just like this site as well as Yahoo, MSN, et al. It further does not matter how many times you clear the cache on your browser(s), run apps like CCleaner, Eraser, or even re-install your OS; the stuff STILL has the potential to be recovered and viewed.

    So, imagine the embarrassment one would suffer if the IT folks at someone's place of employment just happened to conduct an investigation into what an employee has on his/her workstation. They could easily find some rather unsavory images......images that got there solely because the employee had made a few posts on some harmless and benign internet bulletin board or even just viewed one page. Better safe than sorry.....
     
  7. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    "Freedom of Speech" also does not allow you to shout FIRE in a theater or commit libel or slander.
    You have the freedom to criticize the government without fear of arrest. You do not have the right to say anything you like. You've NEVER had complete and utter freedom to say anything you wanted.


    And as was said above...this is a private message board. If anyone wants to be offensive, they can do it somewhere else. The community sets the standards and those standards were crossed.
     
  8. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    7,200
    1,066
    0
    Location:
    Northampton, MA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
  9. Devil's Advocate

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    922
    10
    1
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Well Tempus and Dragonfly are correct; this board can censor all it likes.
    Something that Natalie Maine or Janeane Garofalo don't understand.

    To Ozyran, YES my liberties WILL tread on your rights, just as your liberties will tread on my rights. It’s called living in society. You being offended by my exercise of liberty is a price you, and society, has to pay for that liberty.

    If liberals are offended by speech and refuse to allow it in an open (non-governmental) forum, because they believe that speech is demeaning or offensive (to them), what makes you think that those same liberals in government won't do the same? It is also hard to combat those liberals too; because their argument is "it's for your own good or the good of society" I mean how do you argue against that. ;-)

    Ask Tipper Gore. (granted a lot of conservatives would have agreed with her, still doesn't make it right or Constitutional)

    To have freedom of speech you have to be willing to hear things that you really, really, really don't want to. Including words that you, or you believe others find offensive. It’s the fear of the word that gives it power.

    Airport kid- YES that post may, yes may, be gratuitous offensiveness, but like the ACLU is fond of saying THAT is precisely the type of speech we must defend or we lose the right to any free speech.

    Tag, is sucks that you get your web pages cached but maybe, if it is an issue, you shouldn't be on the web at work? yeah like I'm not;-) but really if your work really cared they’d can you when they saw that you were spending so much time on the Priuschat website. (unless you maybe work for Toyota and it could be research)

    Godiva-
    You do have the RIGHT to say whatever you like, its just that not everybody has to like or support you for it, or that there may not be other consequences (for slander or a libel). But as far as being offensive, who determines that something is offensive on the board? The community? So what are those standards, who sets them, who notifies the community" about those standards? What are the guidelines? I bet they are pretty nebulous. Regardless, private censorship, while not being unconstitutional, or illegal (generally) may be nearly as offensive or dangerous if it limits discussion topics that some find "offensive".

    On a site where so many are so critical of the government when a conservative (even though Bush isn't) is in office, some of you here are very adamant on your support for "private" censorship! Granted not illegal but still, censorship is censorship!
     
  10. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    2,217
    7
    0
    Tag wasn't speaking just for himself.
     
  11. jared2

    jared2 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    1,615
    1
    0
    Priuschat is one of hundreds of millions of websites and interactive communities on the internet. I am therefore not greatly concerned if a moderator decides to censor something on PC. Censorship of the internet itself would be altogether different, and intolerable. China tries to do it, without much sucess. If I don't like censorship on PC, I have many, many alternatives. Much as governments would like to, I doubt if they will ever be able to effectively censor the internet, since it is so international. If it was up to me, I would have no censorship except child pornography. Everything else would be available.

    What did I think of the breasts-in-motion avatar? Not very erotic, mildly amusing and sophomoric. I can't say that I found it very offensive, even though it is in bad taste. I can understand how the sexism of it would offend some women, but it is incredibly mild compared to what you find on some other chat rooms - even those that attract highly educated people. Women can write limericks, for example, that make me blush. So not all women are so sensitive. Of greater concern to me would be a moderator removing something that others deemed politically offensive. I don't think this has happened.

    Why not have a poll for these controversies to see what the PC community thinks? It should really be decided by PC community consensus, in my opinion.
     
  12. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    2,437
    26
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Frankly, Devil, we all agreed to limits on our speech when we registered for the board:

    Forum Terms & Rules

    Please take a moment to review these rules detailed below. If you agree with them and wish to proceed with the registration, simply click the "Register" button below. To cancel this registration, simply hit the 'back' button on your browser.

    Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message.

    The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this bulletin board. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.

    You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

    You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this bulletin board.

    If you are under 18, you may use this service only with permission and involvement of a parent or guardian. We reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to refuse service, terminate accounts, and/or remove or edit this service. IF YOU ARE UNDER 13 YEARS OF AGE, YOU MAY NOT USE THIS SERVICE


    So what part of this don't you understand? The hyperbole of your argument is lame.
     
  13. jared2

    jared2 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    1,615
    1
    0
    If everything "inaccurate" or "vulgar" was banned I think about 90% of posts would have to be removed. Who judges "accuracy" or whether something is "vulgar"? It's a bit more complicated than having a list of rules.

    Should moderators be the final judges? Or should it be a majority of PC members?

    For example, should this joke be banned?

    "Why don't Republicans use bookmarks?
    They just bend the pages over."

    It is vulgar, but it is entirely appropriate given the real life context.

    Do you really want to ban jokes like these? If so, good bye! (He trudges sadly toward the door, stage left, glancing back now and then with a kind of hopeful, expectant look)
     
  14. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    2,217
    7
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May, 11:26 AM) [snapback]440100[/snapback]</div>
    Oh please no! If the boundary on vulgarity were decided by popular vote from this crowd, I'm afraid I'd have to be faced with a lot worse than a couple of bouncing boobs.
     
  15. jared2

    jared2 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    1,615
    1
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ May 11 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]440115[/snapback]</div>
    Spoken like a true blueblood!
     
  16. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    2,217
    7
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May, 11:48 AM) [snapback]440116[/snapback]</div>
    Well I'm no royal, but I do have sensibilities. :)
     
  17. jared2

    jared2 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    1,615
    1
    0
    I have sensibilities, but would like to have more cents.
     
  18. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    2,191
    538
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ May 11 2007, 10:53 AM) [snapback]440074[/snapback]</div>
    Hoo boy. OK Mister Advocate, are you recommending that the gov't FORCE private forums NOT to censor? That the gov't make moderating a private forum ILLEGAL, so as not to soil the pristine ideal of free speech?

    That is the logical thrust of your argument, which, I point out again, is already rendered impotent by the censorship you yourself practised in making up your original list above.

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  19. jared2

    jared2 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    1,615
    1
    0
    Whether govenment should ban moderators from doing anything is a red herring. The essential question is should a joke like the pages joke be banned? And if so, would that be for political reasons or reasons of bad taste? And if not, then should the breast avatar be banned? Why the difference? Once you start banning things, where do you stop? And can I come up with another rhetorical question?
     
  20. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    2,437
    26
    0
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 11 2007, 01:40 PM) [snapback]440110[/snapback]</div>
    The point I was making was that we all agreed to limit our speech in joining this forum, and that Devil's argument is pretty much base-less on those grounds alone.

    Really, this thread should be titled "Much Ado about Nothing."

    There's about a gazillion forums on the internet you can go to for unmoderated speech. And if you enjoy discussing female anatomy with twelve-year-olds, hey, more power to you. I bet you can even find more animated pictures of breasts.

    An internet message board with no restrictions on speech quickly devolves into a cesspit. This is just a consequence of the perception of anonymity that the internet gives to its users; i.e., they feel free to say things they actually wouldn't say in public, because it's the internet and no one knows their real name.

    But since this board is NOT called PenisChat (which is pretty much what you get with anonymous, unmoderated free speech), I'm happy to have the speech limited, and gross offences excised by the moderators. Who do a fine job, IMO.
     
Loading...