Freedom of Speech is Dead

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Devil's Advocate, May 10, 2007.

  1. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    I doubt that it is the moderators keeping PC from "descending into a cesspit". It is simply that most people here are reasonably intelligent and well-meaning.

    I notice you sidestepped my question. Is this joke offensive and should it be banned?

    "Why don't Republicans use bookmarks?
    They just bend the pages over."


    Keeping to vague generalities is usually a sign of avoidance. Better to use concrete examples.
     
  2. RonH

    RonH Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 11 2007, 03:11 PM) [snapback]440165[/snapback]</div>
    Yes! er, No! Perhaps if you put some punctuation in it -- "T#ey jus! b3nd teh p4ges 0ver."

    I was once warned by a moderator for saying "bullshit," yet regularly see "[email protected]*" and it's variants. Is the latter really less offensive. Is "frickin'" acceptable? "Jiminy Christmas?"

    If correctly spelled vulgarities are offensive then so should be their punctuated stand-ins. You aren't being more polite, just more stupid.
     
  3. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 11 2007, 03:11 PM) [snapback]440165[/snapback]</div>
    Oh gimme a break. Avoidance? The joke's fine. Excuse me for not finding it commentworthy.

    I just find this topic inane because we signed away our rights to free speech when we registered. We did that based on the trust that the moderators wouldn't be crazy. They haven't been. They let nearly everything slide. They bark, bite, and boot and when people go too far (see: Mystery Squid). And that's fine by me, because I really don't need to come onto PC and see cartoons of testicles on a woman's face (courtesy: Mystery Squid).

    I find the whole "If you ban one thing, you must ban B" argument stupid and hyperbolic. This is a friggin' web forum about a car. The mods act on a case by case basis. There isn't a freedom of speech issue worth arguing about here.
     
  4. Devil's Advocate

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    Thanks for the rules Megan, now what do they mean???
    There is quite a lot of room for interpretation.

    No I am not saying that the government should force freedom of speech on private forums, or businesses. But well maybe it should, the same the way the government forces some of the other constitutional amendments on the private sector.

    But what I really meant is those that advocate freedom of speech free from government intervention should also proactive that advocacy in their private enterprises. Admittedly not required by the Constitution.

    And Jared2 that joke is pretty funny, ad I lean more conservatively on most things (that involve MY money), but that joke could go both ways! (double entendre)

    Megan, PenisChat :) that’s funny.
    None the less, the whole boobs reference was just to start this debate on what and who determines vulgarity and even with the "rules" of the board the interpretation is quite broad.

    Again
    Those who advocate freedom of speech, should practice it, or be guilty of the same hypocrisy that they accuse other people of practicing.

    Apparently we have learned that voluptuous, bouncing, yet fully clothed breast are too vulgar. Again what a crime. :(
     
  5. tag

    tag Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RonH @ May 11 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]440193[/snapback]</div>
    If that word was used in a post that was primarily a personal attack, then it was warranted, IMHO. If not, well, we're pretty liberal around here *except* when posts contain personal attacks (e.g. Squid's last, pre-ban, post), images *we as moderators*, believe, in good faith, would offend the sensibilities of *the majority* (e.g. Pinto Girl's last, pre-ban, post), and pure spam.



    So, let's recap the sequence of events in that other thread:

    1) A member started a topic in which he opined that Squid's latest avatar was in bad taste.

    2) Squid went on the offensive (totally out of character for him, I think we all realize that.......NOT!) and was temporarily banned for a personal attack. IIRC, that post was removed before some members here were even aware it existed.

    3) Another member adopted that little "jiggly" image and used it as his avatar.

    4) Pinto Girl found said avatar offensive, posted a rather graphic image in response (*definitely* out of character for her), and was temporarily banned.

    5) I closed the thread because it was patently obvious the thing was going nowhere but downhill. I also requested that a member change his avatar since I *believed*, at the time, some members would find it offensive. Pinto Girl, in fact, took exception to it but responded inappropriately. Others, I'm sure, were being a bit more gracious and did not voice an objection (yet). Regardless, note that I *requested*, not demanded, that the member change his avatar.



    Thanks for your attention and NOW........


    ........back to your regularly scheduled mod bashing. :lol:
     
  6. jgills240

    jgills240 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tag @ May 11 2007, 05:15 PM) [snapback]440243[/snapback]</div>
    I'm gonna do something out of character for myself (not counting actually reading this thread, in FHOP no less! - holy boredom!) and add my own little opinion: "sounds like the moderated recap of a 3rd grade fist fight." Good job everybody! ;)
     
  7. Devil's Advocate

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tag @ May 11 2007, 03:15 PM) [snapback]440243[/snapback]</div>
    Sweet,
    Have to live up to my name, I thnk we all get the point.
     
  8. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tag @ May, 03:15 PM) [snapback]440243[/snapback]</div>
    Well I'd appreciate it if said avatar were removed. I find it objectionable and extremely un-work-friendly.
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 11 2007, 11:40 AM) [snapback]440110[/snapback]</div>
    This chat board is the PROPERTY of Danny. The mods are appointed by Danny to act as his representatives. They and he have a perfect right to ban posters, remove posts, lock threads, etc., because it's his property. By the same token, if you invite someone into your house, and he behaves in a manner that you don't like, you can kick him out. You don't need to give a reason.

    The mods here have been extremely restrained in the matter of locking posts and banning posters. But anybody that wants to is free to set up his or her own chat board. People do it all the time. And there are unmoderated chat boards out there, where absolutely anything goes. If we choose to participate in PriusChat we subject ourselves to the fact that the mods run the board. I, for one, think they do a darn fine job of permitting most ideas to be expressed while strongly discouraging personal attacks. I was not offended by the jiggly avatar, but I agree that nothing was being expressed in that thread that would have merited serious defense as important speech. Again, it's Danny's board, and his mods can run it as they see fit.

    So I say, Thanks to Danny and the mods. It sure is not a job I would want.
     
  10. jimmyrose

    jimmyrose Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 11 2007, 10:42 PM) [snapback]440350[/snapback]</div>
    Exactly. Everyone joining agrees to this (as has been previously pointed out), and I agree, the mods handle things very diplomatically. For anyone who feels the mods are too heavy-handed - I have a solution for you: take your leyboard and play somewhere else.
     
  11. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    i think there is a certain "community standard" here on the boards. while people may have their own personal standards, by participating in this community, we have to do a little give and take from our own personal standards to keep the peace around here.

    i see the mods intervening on a pretty minimal basis here compared to what could be happening on a board of this size.
     
  12. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    This is the first and only online community I've been part of. There's a wide range of interests and experience, and a real sense of community. I don't envy the moderators' jobs in any way, and respect them for being there when they're needed, yet still letting the kids play. Every playground has its bullies, and even the more calm and reasonable among us will lose their cool when provoked. Freedom of speech is stronger when everyone feels they have a say, not when the bullies are running wild, whining about their right to be offensive.
     
  13. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    I'm the exact opposite. I've been involved in online communities for over 25 years (I sent my first email in 1980!); I'm currently a member of several, everywhere to an admin on one to a lurker on a half dozen or so, and this is one of the best-run boards I know. If anything, the admins aren't heavy-handed enough, but I have absolutely no complaints about the way it's run.
     
  14. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ May, 01:21 PM) [snapback]440683[/snapback]</div>
    Show off! :p
     
  15. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    I'd like to chime in on this, as this whole thing started with my avatar.

    This board has gotten more restrictive as of late. It USED to be, personal attacks were allowed, as long as it wasn't anything obvious and crude like, "Hey, you're a f'in a-hole!", but stuff like this: "You're liberal ilk is so offensive, I'd like nothing more than to see such individuals driven into the ocean and drown each one with my bare hands..." was fair game. Why that changed, who knows, and I don't really care that much, it's not my board, THEY can do what they want.

    However, I totally disagree the "community" sets the standard. That's just really a mechanism to make you feel better. The board's owner is the one who sets the standard, and no one else.

    I've always found this whole "community" thing fascinating. How people need to feel they "belong" amongst other likeminded individuals, it makes you feel "safe", part of something. In many ways this is exactly the sort of thing that set people like Cho and the Columbine killers off. They were ostracized by a "community" that set a "standard" they effectively could not be part of. It happens on this board all the time, someone whines they're offended by this or that, and we all have to pay the price. Then you have those "community" minded folk who claim the "community" ( a.k.a. THEIR community) sets the standard, and when it's crossed, you should be "appropriately" punished. :rolleyes: Is it really any wonder someone is going to lash out at some point? People are a really sick lot, we NEED this whole us vs. them concept, there's always gotta be someone "outside" we need to "correct".

    So, all I really have to say is this:

    Drop the ego's, drop the "politically correct" BS, drop the WHINING (OMG, ESPECIALLY the WHINING (it's truly amazing how many grown arse educated people on here whine about the STUPIDEST things)), and just be nice to each other. If you don't like what someone is saying, IGNORE THEM, if you feel you can't control yourself, and just HAVE to tangle with them, expect they're going to nail you back. Just like in the real world, if you're going to punch someone, don't be surprised if they punch you back.

    ;)

    p.s. fyi to the masses I might offend:

    I've accepted a job offer, and my postings on PC will PLUMMET as I know this new place has strict internet usage policies!!!! :lol:
     
  16. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 13 2007, 12:18 AM) [snapback]440915[/snapback]</div>
    True; you can't access the Internet when you're running the fry machine.
     
  17. jimmyrose

    jimmyrose Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 13 2007, 01:18 AM) [snapback]440915[/snapback]</div>
    Weird; I never thought I'd be so happy for someone's else's employment status...

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 13 2007, 01:18 AM) [snapback]440915[/snapback]</div>
    From a "grown arse educated" person: STUPIDEST is not a word, even if it's capitalized. My kids knew this by the age of 4...
     
  18. larkinmj

    larkinmj New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ May 13 2007, 01:52 AM) [snapback]440929[/snapback]</div>
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ May 13 2007, 09:38 AM) [snapback]441014[/snapback]</div>
    If it's a "real" job, where they have policies about such things as sexual harrassment, inappropriate emails, etc.- his employment may be short-lived.
     
  19. jimmyrose

    jimmyrose Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 13 2007, 11:25 AM) [snapback]441058[/snapback]</div>
    I'm sure sexual harassment and inappropriate emails fall under Squid's interpretation of "violating" freedom of speech.
     
  20. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tag @ May 11 2007, 05:15 PM) [snapback]440243[/snapback]</div>
    I too, am offended by the "jiggly" image and complained to the moderators. I was told they made a polite request for a change and were rebuffed. It was suggested I contact the member privately. Which I did, politely. I received a rude personal attack. The member immediately went on my ignore list but I also have to avoid any threads this member posts in because the avatar remains even if the text is gone. It's easy to avoid him if he's started one as his name blatantly appears as the originator. But I have no way of knowing if he's posted in any other thread as a participant. I feel this is a form of sexual harassment and it puts unfair limits on my ability to enjoy all of Priuschat and my freedom to read any thread I wish.

    I'm considering putting myself in the position to be banned by posting a graphic avatar of my own, counter to the jiggly one. If he can why can't I? Well, because I'm sure there's a double standard. And there will be some reason why mine is more offensive than his.

    Of course why he wants to pose as a transvestite by both avatar and handle, I'm not sure. I guess he just gets off (literally) by offending as many as possible and receiving no consequences for it. (And at the same time can attack the moderators for censorship when they do step in.)

    (I'll bet the animated gif I found is the exact same one Pinto Girl used, too.)
     
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