Freezing point -- Water in gallon jugs?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by cyberpriusII, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    1,085
    1,438
    0
    Location:
    Iowa
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So, husband hauled 24 jugs of water (U.S. gallons) into the house last night and set them up in the guest bathroom.

    We are (were???) supposed to have low temps in the 11-12-degree F range all week and highs in the low 20s....that may not happen, but my question still is....

    How much cold before those jugs would have frozen out in our unheated and un-insulated Cedar work shed?

    Normally, if we have a day or so of 24-degrees we do not bother and we leave the water out in the shed and have no problems.

    We seldom have prolonged cold here, (norms are 42 F during the day and 34-36 F at night through most of the winter.

    Anyway, I already have 36 gallons of water tucked away in the house and there really is no other place for the extra jugs than where he put them. Just wondering how cautious we need to be (and how long those 24 jugs will be tucked in the bathroom).

    kris
     
  2. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2014
    2,475
    2,132
    49
    Location:
    Top RH Corner of RH Coast on L side of The Pond
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    II
    When I was a kid, growing up in the wilds of the south west (Devon, UK), if it was particularly cold, my old Dad used to leave the light on in the outside toilet, in order to prevent the water in the toilet-cistern and pipes from freezing! Sounds like you need to leave a small heater on (and a fan, if possible) in your work shed (…c'mon, I'm sure you have access to an extension cord?) (…I won't even ask why you need to be storing so much water! o_O:cautious:)
     
    cyberpriusII and Rmay635703 like this.
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    98,410
    44,646
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i'll refrain from my old geezer stories:p but i suspect this question has too many variables for an accurate answer. plastic is a lot more forgiving than glass, i know that from experience.
     
    cyberpriusII likes this.
  4. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    1,085
    1,438
    0
    Location:
    Iowa
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Only need the water when the power goes out. Which, when it does, can sometimes be out for three weeks or so. The power company really does not put first priority on individual houses all by themselves out in the middle of the woods...our 1000w generator is reserved for (barely) keeping the refrigerator and freezer at temperature.

    With no power, we have no water (water from our own 150-foot deep well, electric pump). So, we prepare....but after coming close to running out of water one year, we upped our 26 gallons to 50 gallons and therein lies the issue.

    Just curious, really, not a pressing issue. The dog water bowls don't seem to freeze outside until it hits 24 F or so.

    Hubby is just not keen about having 26 gallons of slushy water inundating his shed.

    Yeah, and I have heard about the "prius generator," but do not want to attempt that chore.

    And, c'mon Bisco, if I really get snowed in -- and it is looking like it just may happen -- all I may have for entertainment is your old geezer stories (if the power stays on).

    kris
     
    RCO likes this.
  5. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,292
    1,459
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    Water will freeze at 32 period.

    Duration of exposure could be hours or days before freeze

    A dip below and above freezing each day could delay freezing indefinitely.

    The floor of your shed might stay "warm" far longer than you expect.

    No way to know without testing.
     
    The Electric Me, RCO and Trollbait like this.
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    98,410
    44,646
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    you need to talk to bill wilson about a prius generator.:) but anyway, if you insist:cool: i went out to the bahn the other day, and there was water all over the workbench. i couldn't for the life of me figure out where it came from. after a couple days, i looked up, and an old glass bottle that i dug up 12 years ago and had sitting on a shelf filled with water, had cracked, and the water seeped out onto the bench. it hasn't even been that cold here.
     
  7. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,561
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Looking at the problem from another angle.....what about a mechanical pump for the water?
     
    RCO likes this.
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,145
    3,519
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    It does sound cold enough to freeze the water.
    How about leave one jug out there as a test case?

    PS - be careful as the water will expand upon freezing...did you say plastic jugs? I remember in the old days at the cottage my grandparents would have nice clear glass jugs of water, and the sun would burn a hole in the wood deck like a magnifying glass.

    We are trying to plan our attack on the Aug. 17 solar eclipse, but Oregon is considered ideal.
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,514
    3,287
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Underfill the bottles so they don't break. Pack them close together and throw a tarp over.

    32 oF is the real number but it can take a while to settle in.

    Winter camping in central Oregon, I poured water out of a gallon jug to heat for coffee. Upsetting the jug allowed the rest of it to freeze suddenly. It was actually beautiful to watch.
     
    RCO, Trollbait and Rmay635703 like this.
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,514
    3,287
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Oh - get a soap bubble blowing kit. When night is cold enough, take it outside and blow bubbles with (warm) lung air. Watch and listen really carefully.

    I will not spoil the surprise.
     
    RCO and bisco like this.
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    25,289
    14,344
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Use antifreeze:
    [​IMG]
    Don't forget the Kool-Aid:
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    MrMischief and Trollbait like this.
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,514
    3,287
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Thread starter is planning 60 gallons for 2 people (and ? dogs) against 3-week loss of supply. Survivalists would see this as a 100-gallon problem; not fully prepared for here.

    We don’t need to make PriusChat yet another survivalist website, but do y’all really have no stored potable water? No stored anything? Assuming you are then, that life supplies can’t possibly be briefly interrupted? Assuming you’ll be properly informed in advance?

    Zero is not a positive number.
     
    RCO and bisco like this.
  13. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    1,218
    490
    27
    Location:
    Morgantown, WV
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I say nah if the shed can be closed. Mulch and blanket like you would root crops or in the garden. I try to freeze 6 or 8 2 liter bottles outside for use as air displacing thermal mass in my little used freezer section. Same bottles for seven or eight years. Have to place and space them as far away from structures on already frozen ground and exposed to black night sky with single digit temps for 2 or 3 days. Shade and insulate by day. Not even close to those conditions this year. Kept together there's to much thermal mass heat in the ground, buildings, and water to freeze very fast but that will be some ice cold water.
     
  14. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    1,218
    490
    27
    Location:
    Morgantown, WV
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I think most of us use big box mart communal storage. Working fireplaces to cook or heat? We got FEMA we're prepared.
     
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,514
    3,287
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    [email protected] refer to colligative properties of water. Science here? I think not.

    Survivalist stored water has only two flavors - that you ingest and that you flush orwash with. To the former, add nothing. To the latter, plain old salt NaCl is lowest cost. Keep your ethanol and sugar for purposeful uses.

    For potable water, bleach (sodium hypochlorite) has a role. But not in this thread, concerning 3 weeks and near-freezing T.
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    25,289
    14,344
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I was thinking about the 1 kW 'generator' that easily releases about 2-3 kW of heat. Assuming the shed has some degree of air tightness, the generator should be able to keep parts of the interior above freezing while it is running.

    I had considered using the exhaust heat from the Prius-as-generator to provide warm/hot water during an outage.

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    1,218
    490
    27
    Location:
    Morgantown, WV
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    These deep well pumps sure look nice. Anybody know anything about them? Deep Well Hand Pumps - BISON PUMPS

    Broken glass starts most range land and forest fires is So. Cal. and other dry desert areas.

    Water to water heat exchanger in parallel with the coolant line running to the radiator of the Prime in charge mode should provide more than enough hot water. Sous Vide Steak and Hot water Cornbread?


    A watched jug never freezes.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    17,918
    8,742
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Wind powered ones for agricultural use are still available.
     
  19. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    1,085
    1,438
    0
    Location:
    Iowa
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    If we lose power, it usually means we are snowed/iced in. We can still make it to civilization -- but it is a two-hour walk. Sometimes, I will impose on a friend to pick me up halfway, where the roads are usually cleared of trees/ice..

    Usually the roads clear before the power comes back, so we haul empty jugs to town, fill them and haul them back. A couple of times, have had to hand-carry up the last 1/4 mile of a steep driveway (500-foot elevation gain in 440 yards), as roads are clear to the bottom, but our drive is still blocked by trees/snow/ice.

    Well is at the bottom of the ridge, there is 900 feet of line from the well to the house. Mechanical pump really would not be practical.

    It all works, it just takes planning. Of course, in the event of massive earthquake, thermonuclear war, etc., we are screwed, but actually better off than 99 percent of people who have no emergency supplies.

    Thanks for the thoughts.

    My real thought is that the jugs would probably be O.K. with a couple of old sleeping bags thrown over them in the shed. Think I will take one out today and test my theory. Supposed to be 11 tonight and 18 on Wednesday.

    Oh, and worry about running generator in shed would be the pollution inside and how much it would contaminate everything in there. I store lots of items inside such as backpacks, sleeping bags, extreme weather gear that I would not like smelling like exhaust for the next several months.
     
    #19 cyberpriusII, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
    RCO likes this.
  20. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,561
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    900 feet? OK, that's a long way to pump. I was picturing a bicycle, held stationary, with an inner tube 'drive belt' to the pump. We all need fitness routines, right? ;)
     
    RCO likes this.
Loading...