From o2 sensor to engine replacement in 10 days?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by FantasticalMagicOne, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    1,079
    906
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Plenty of electricians still draw breath because they work with one hand in their back pocket.

    *not actual safety advice
     
  2. FantasticalMagicOne

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    208
    113
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, PA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    HA! It's also going to be about 20° on Wed, gloves seem like the best way to go.
     
  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    1,079
    906
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    No doubt. I just finished a gig in Michigan, made it out just before the weather closed everything and it's no joke... real cold moving east.
     
  4. FantasticalMagicOne

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    208
    113
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, PA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Well, today was the first day that I wasn't subject to subfreezing temps, and was able to get outside to try to change this sensor. I had a heck of a time removing the bolts from the service grip club, and then discovered that my liquid transfer pump doesn't fit in the coolant tank. Having already disconnect the batteries, there's no way to get it up on ramps without reconnecting everything. I still don't own a floor jack, and even if I pick one up, the snow/ice layer around the car (still chipping away and throwing down layers of ice melt) won't allow for the use of one. The car's not on complete level ground anyway. At this point, I know that the ramps are the best option in order to drain the coolant and continue the job, so I started to put everything back together. And I didn't get far past started because I can't get the 2 bolts I removed when disconnecting the service grip plug back in. I cannot see, and I spent over an hour, blindly trying to get them in the right spot to put them back in. There's not enough room for my fingers and the bolt to set it in place. No matter what tool I used, I couldn't get either bolt to line up. Any tips on how to get them back in?

    I ended up placing blankets in the back and pulled one of them through the hook so the hatch wouldn't close all the way and left it for the night. It's supposed to be better tomorrow, weather wise, and I can get back to it. But I can't move forward until I find a way under this car, and I need to get those bolts back in regardless of how I accomplish that.


    upload_2019-2-2_18-38-9.png
     
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    17,486
    5,458
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    You should not have removed those bolts. The service grip pulls out after you’re pivoted the handle 90 degrees. Just yank the service grip out, then you can replace the bolts.
     
  6. FantasticalMagicOne

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    208
    113
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, PA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The grip is out, and I can't get them back in. I was following the instructions in the repair manual. Are there any other steps for this replacement that I should be ignoring? upload_2019-2-2_19-41-19.png
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    17,486
    5,458
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I am certain you will come across other repair manual instructions that are irrelevant to the particular task that you seek to do. You have to read ahead and think about whether it makes sense to do something, or not.

    All that you needed to do here, was to pull out the service plug grip, then proceed to remove the cowl that runs across the rear of the engine compartment (which requires removing the windshield wiper blades, wiper motor and the sheet metal tray), so you can remove the inverter, which allows access to the air/fuel ratio sensor.

    The reason for removing the service plug grip is you want to disconnect the traction battery in preparation for removing the inverter. The other repair steps in that section assumed that the fuse was blown and that you needed to replace it, which is not the case as far as I know.

    I am concerned that your lack of experience in this area is going to result in a disappointing outcome. (This might not be so far away from someone on a camping trip in the wilderness, equipped with a medical textbook, trying to remove someone else's appendix with an Exacto knife, a bottle of isopropyl alcohol, and no prior experience.)

    Anyway, if you have the benefit of being in the warm indoors with lots of lighting, the service grip and the two bolts, you should be able to see what is going on and figure out how to replace the bolts. Worst case if you cannot figure it out, put a new service grip on the list of parts that you will need to buy.

    The bolts need to be tightened to 48 in.-lb which is 4 ft.-lb. This is important because the fuse carries up to 100A peak current at 220VDC, hence tremendous power is flowing through that fuse. So you must make sure the bolts are properly tightened or you could end up with a fire at the battery compartment.

    There are more places where you could easily screw up. Another such place is the high voltage wiring connecting to the inverter. You must pay attention to which wire is connected to which terminal and not screw that up. The orange wiring is all high voltage, up to 500VAC three-phase and also carry high current, so do not allow any mistakes here.

    Mark the wires and terminals if necessary using masking tape and a pen. Also be certain that you observe torque specifications when tightening hardware.

    I am not sure how a liquid transfer pump is helping here. You should plan to drain the inverter coolant and replace with new. This requires removing the drain plug under the transaxle, closest to the engine. You will need a 24 mm 6-point socket for that. The other drain plug, farther away from the engine, uses a 10 mm hex key and is for draining transaxle ATF. You should have a gallon of Toyota Super Long Life Coolant and a replacement aluminum washer for the drain plug.

    If you are going to utilize ramps, you will need low rise ramps because the Prius air dam could easily hit a regular rise ramp before the front tires have a chance to move up the ramps.
     
    #427 Patrick Wong, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  8. johnjohnchu

    johnjohnchu Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    195
    87
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
  9. FantasticalMagicOne

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    208
    113
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, PA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thank you, I believe that I can put them back in with the help of a magnetic nutsetter. Thank you for the torque specs, I have them, but not having to dig for them for this is helpful.

    I know how dangerous this job is, and I don't want to be the one to do it. It's why I've paid experienced professionals to do the job. Twice.
    Thank you for this.


    I am concerned, however, that the first dealership could have messed up putting the inverter back together. Can the problem lie with a misconnection in there? I really don't know. I just know that I want my car back. I don't live in an area where you can get by without one.
     
  10. John321

    John321 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    30
    38
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Getting the inverter in/out is a significant job as Patrick Wong mentioned.

    A second part that you need to plan for is you know that the sensor was the wrong one and you mentioned the engine was running louder.
    It is possible the sensor had the wrong thread pattern and was installed as far as it could be before cross threading and jamming the threads.It would also be possible the plug connection was not able to fit this non oem sensor and the mechanic jerry rigged the wiring by cutting off the plug and hard wiring the sensor in. None of this is insurmountable, but rethreading will require a thread chaser and a new plug assembly may have to be installed if the old one was cut off. Each of these task require a job knack and experience that is not readily passed on through the internet.

    I had to remove the inverter on my 2008 base model Prius to replace the brake actuator. As was mentioned this job has many different parts to it that can provide a roadblock if you don't posses the knack for that job. There are a couple of connectors on the inverter that are going to require some study time to figure out how they disconnect. I am an industial mechanic and I did feel challenged by this job.

    You sound like a very talented person but please consider the consequences and all the potential outcomes good and not so good before preceding.
    .
     
    #430 John321, Feb 3, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    17,486
    5,458
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Well, to investigate that further, you will have to remove the cowl tray which might give you sufficient access to inspect. Look at the Johnjohnchu post and notice he did not provide a photo of the A/F ratio sensor, so that sensor may not be easily accessible while the inverter is in place. You won’t know until you try.
     
  12. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    593
    532
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Remove the orange safety disconnect from the battery before trying to put the fuse bolts back in. You have been messing with a live portion of the HV battery. There is no good reason to be doing this.

    Installing the fuse bolts will be trivial with the plug removed from the battery.
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  13. FantasticalMagicOne

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    208
    113
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, PA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A

    The inverter is the part of the job that I really don't want take on. I'm sure I can learn automotive repair, but would prefer to learn small jobs and work my way up to the larger ones. Geeze, it took me quite some time to think about a magnetic tool for fasteners (which I have in phillips and flat heads, but of course not for bolts -_- ). I'd like to get it to my friends shop, but things keep happening to prevent it. Last week it was the weather, this week it's my inability to get home once I get it there (still working on a solution there).

    I have a thread chaser, but hadn't considered the plug connection being a problem. The only way I'll know is to look, but if that's the issue then I won't dare touch it. Those wires serve far too great a purpose to be messed with by someone at my skill level. I only do very minor electric work (had to reattach a light fixture last week).

    I know precisely what you mean here as far as having the knack for things you can only get from experience. I previously mentioned that I am very handy in other areas. Before I encountered this sensor nightmare, I had begun to work on my sons' room (stay with me here). I had a leak in the roof (fixed by a roofer) that had ruined part of their ceiling. It was always my intention to redo this room, the paint job was terrible (not just the color, but they painted over the outlets as well), there were nail holes and dents all over the place, you could see the tape through the stippling on the joists and on all of the butt joints, and there wasn't any baseboard installed at all. I'm going to fast forward to the baseboard installation. I don't have a miter saw, and the work was done with a circular saw. The floors are uneven, which requires level mounting, scribing, unmounting, then cutting that uneven line a 5° bevel (shoe moulding would have avoided me this task, and I'll probably install it anyway as it does serve a practical purpose), but the 45° bevel cuts required for the corners are very tricky with a circular saw and shouldn't be done by an untrained individual. The potential for kickback increases significantly when using this saw for that cut. The point being, it's not something you can "just do" it takes a lot of experience and even then, it doesn't always come out right. I wouldn't tell anyone they couldn't do it, but I would strongly suggest a miter box and to avoid coping without any help.
     
    #433 FantasticalMagicOne, Feb 3, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  14. FantasticalMagicOne

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    208
    113
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, PA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I will take a look, unless I sort out getting it to the shop in the meantime.


    The grip has been out the entire time. As previously mentioned, I was following steps in the repair manual, which include removing the grip before removing the bolts. Patrick was kind enough to explain why that unnecessary step is in there, but I don't think it incredibly unreasonable to do precisely as the official repair manual has instructed. Now that I know I will encounter unnecessary steps for this task in the manual, I will be more careful to avoid them. That's if I can't get it to a mechanic or have a mechanic get to it.
     
    #434 FantasticalMagicOne, Feb 3, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  15. FantasticalMagicOne

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    208
    113
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, PA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Okay, I have it back in place, and the car started. It took a good 10-15 seconds* for the ICE to actually run, but it did run.

    I heard clicking coming from the HV battery, on the drivers side, upon start up. I started it 3 times and each time there were 2 clicks, and then I turned the car on without starting the ICE and heard another click. If that connector clamp wasn't properly installed/was damaged, would that cause the clicking? Or could this simply be the relay that I'm hearing, and I may not have heard it before because I usually have everything in its place? Tonight, I didn't put the floor boards or the rear deck floor box back, and I also had the seats down.

    *this happened all 3 times I started the car
     
    #435 FantasticalMagicOne, Feb 3, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  16. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    17,486
    5,458
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    There are three system main relays in the traction battery case and you probably are hearing them click as the car is made READY.
     
  17. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    1,092
    502
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So you replaced the sensor?
     
  18. FantasticalMagicOne

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    208
    113
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, PA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    No, but I'll be en route to my friends garage very shortly. :)
     
  19. FantasticalMagicOne

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    208
    113
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, PA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I test drove the car to determine if it would be okay enough to take the 30 mile trip. I opted for the tow truck and decided against force charging it every few miles. But it's getting to the garage tonight (FINALLY!).

    I ran techstream after I drove for about 15 minutes, and code P0A0D 350 came up. Last night, after I put everything back together, I (like many before me) forgot to press the grip down after inserting and flipping it up. I didn't realize it until I went to start it. I suspect that is they this code is appearing. Is that a safe assumption?

    upload_2019-2-4_18-5-9.png
     
  20. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    1,092
    502
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It probably coded when you first tried to start the car and figured out you didn’t lock it down.
     
Loading...