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Fuel cell fan asks EV advocates 10 questions

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by Ashlem, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

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    Fuel-Cell Fan Bites Back At Electric-Car Advocates, Asks 10 Questions Of His Own

    This is mostly in response to this:

    10 Questions On Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Cars To Ask Toyota, Honda & Hyundai

    Which was also discussed on priuschat:

    Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai answer fuel cell questions | PriusChat

    So basically someone who is a fan of fuel cells is asking ten questions for people who are pro-EV, much in the same way greencarreports asked 10 questions about fuel cell vehicles. What are your thoughts on it? Does he make a good argument with his questions?

    Actual link here:

    10 Battery Electric Car Questions For GreenCarReports - Toyota Parts Blog

    The 10 questions:

    1. Why do BEV advocates cling to a highly irrelevant electricity efficiency argument?

    2. Why do BEV advocates insist on contrasting the Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model S, etc. with FCVs?

    3. Why assume that refueling time is the only advantage FCVs have over BEVs?

    4. Why do FCV critics ignore all the investment in (and excitement for) fuel cell technology outside of transportation?

    5. Why don’t BEV advocates understand that fuel cells are the only workable technology for trucks and large SUVs?

    6. Why don’t BEV advocates acknowledge that battery chemistry has stagnated?

    7. Why are BEV advocates so willing to overlook battery range problems?

    8. Why do BEV advocates talk so much about the lack of hydrogen infrastructure?

    9. Why does Elon Musk criticize FCVs so regularly?

    10. Why can’t Tesla and Nissan Leaf fans just relax? What’s with all the hate?
     
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  2. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The 10 questions:

    1. Why do BEV advocates cling to a highly irrelevant electricity efficiency argument?

    Because the real enemy is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The sun-to-mile efficiency is not there.

    2. Why do BEV advocates insist on contrasting the Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model S, etc. with FCVs?

    I can buy them today and FCVs are as real as the EV1.

    3. Why assume that refueling time is the only advantage FCVs have over BEVs?

    That is a strawman having nothing to do with reality. As long as humans have to operate cars, biological processes dictate drive-vs-not drive cycles.

    4. Why do FCV critics ignore all the investment in (and excitement for) fuel cell technology outside of transportation?

    We have a fine appreciation for the money wasted on HYDROGEN only based air-metal fool cells.

    5. Why don’t BEV advocates understand that fuel cells are the only workable technology for trucks and large SUVs?

    We are educated. Are you?

    6. Why don’t BEV advocates acknowledge that battery chemistry has stagnated?

    Then we live in different realities. Some of us understand there are more alkaline metals than hydrogen gas.

    7. Why are BEV advocates so willing to overlook battery range problems?

    We are also willing to recognize the limits of the human bladder. Do you sell affordable autonomous cars so we could nap, pee, and picnic on our travels!

    8. Why do BEV advocates talk so much about the lack of hydrogen infrastructure?

    Perhaps because there isn't one. Natural gas that heats my home is not enriched by hydrogen. When that happens you will have an assertion that makes economic sense.

    9. Why does Elon Musk criticize FCVs so regularly?

    He has a brain and uses it ... like me if you are really interested in our answers.

    10. Why can’t Tesla and Nissan Leaf fans just relax? What’s with all the hate?

    There is no hate but I can buy a leaf TODAY, used, for $15,000 and drive it tomorrow . . . in Alabama. Where is that FCV?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #3 bwilson4web, Nov 25, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
  4. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Poor response to the 10 questions for FCV proponents.

    First, very biased and argumentative questions, where the questions for FCV proponents were very even handed.
    Many of those questions can simply be answered: "Because BEV proponents have been living with and driving BEVs for years now".

    I am one of those that does believe hydrogen can be used in some applications. Storing wind power that would needlessly be shut off otherwise is one of them.
    Use in the light vehicle fleet though is foolish.

    Right now the fuel-cell vehicle manufacturers are stating they'll only be selling fuel cell vehicles to people that live close by hydrogen filling stations.
    With zero public charging infrastructure you could sell a BEV to anyone that lived close to... their garage.

    Public infrastructure makes BEVs more convenient for more people.
    FCV don't work without it, not to mention the inconvenience of having to go to a dedicated station to refuel once every couple of weeks, or more.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Cars With Cords: Fuel Cell Advocate Strikes Back

    "Never let perfect become the enemy of good enough."

    The PNGV program was defunded by some oil executives to pay for the future, fuel cell program. Monthly, +50,000 new, fuel efficient cars each month are sold and running around the roads. They date from the defunded, PNGV era. Now we see back-door attempts to tax the gas-burning ones, including our Prius that continues to sell.

    Bob Wilson