Fuel consumption: US Vs the World

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RobertG @ Jul 25 2007, 06:25 PM) [snapback]485063[/snapback]</div>

Ask and you shall receive. The following is a graph of the top 40 economies. It is GDP per Capita vs. Energy efficiency ($ GDP per BTU energy consumed)

 

What does GDP have to do with efficiency though? That doesn't mean you are using energy. Ok, I guess it does, but what if you are a farmer that does everything by hand? It contributes a lot of GDP, but like nothing to energy.

That doesn't show energy efficiency in my book.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alexstarfire @ Jul 26 2007, 08:43 PM) [snapback]485870[/snapback]</div>

That's the very definition of energy efficiency. If your hands are more efficient than a machine, based on how many calories you burn vs. the energy of the fuel for your machine, then yes, you are being energy efficient by doing something by hand.

However, as the graph shows, energy efficiency does NOT compute into wealth, because we still have (for a short time, anyways) an abundance of cheap energy, so it is not cost effective to worry about saving energy. Using more energy saves another valuable resource: time.

The most energy efficient mode of transportation is probably the bicycle. But I cannot make my 35 miles to work on a bicycle, due to time.

 

So what? You may be using the energy efficiently but still using more than your share. And it doesn't account for the energy used by other countries to produce products consumed by Americans. And we consume a lot.

Bottom line. We consume more per capita than other countries. So what if we consume it efficiently. We still consume more.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alexstarfire @ Jul 26 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]485870[/snapback]</div>

You'd be the Philippines and Bangladesh. Very energy efficient, but low productivity.

Godiva, what is "more than your share"? How is that defined and who's responsible for that?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Jul 26 2007, 11:15 PM) [snapback]485950[/snapback]</div>

The U.S. has 5% of the world's population yet uses 25% of the world's oil. Now if that 25% were just U.S. oil and we didn't import any at all, I guess that would be our business. However I think it would be stupid as we could use less and well the excess. But no, we not only use all of ours but buy a lot from other countries. The fact we can pay keeps the prices really high, probably making it more difficult for less affluent countries to buy oil.

And what are we doing now? We're bellyaching that China and India are buying more oil. Like it's ours and they're taking what we're entitled to.

Americans need to get over their entitlement syndrome. The world does not owe us anything, certainly not cheap oil nor as much oil as we want.

I also think if we are going to be so greedy about what we use, we should work the most aggresively to develop all methods to counteract global warming. We're not dead last there, but our actions are certainly nothing to brag about.

We whine about China and India surpassing us in their demand for oil. What happens when China and India also surpass us in alternative energy, hybrids, EVs, wind, solar, whatever?

Personally, I think the U.S. should shut up and put it's money where it's big mouth is. Become the world leader in solar, wind, geothermal, etc.

 

I agree with what you're saying, for the most part. The entitlement thing especially. Everyone loves free markets until those free markets bite them in the arse.

Still, oil production is market based. Our share is defined by how much we can buy in the market. How else can you realistically define it? We're consuming our share (nevermind that we're wasting a large portion of it and shooting ourselves in the foot because we're dependent on a very finite resource) by definition.

China is already making many of the same mistakes we did. Hopefully they'll correct this before it screws them over.

I think we are in geothermal (unless Iceland produces more). If you include CSP I bet we're ahead in solar too. Of course, what really gets us is our inefficiency. Europeans use half the electricity we do and they're standard of living is pretty much the same. Compared to our peers we're absolute pigs. It's about resources. We have (for now) loads of resources and that has translated into over a century of cheap energy. It's catching up to us, and most people are aware of it. The problem is that we're slaves of our 19th/20th century infrastructure and we're finding it hard to break out of it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrin @ Jul 27 2007, 05:32 AM) [snapback]485930[/snapback]</div>

But, to me, it sounds very simplistic to express energy efficiency as the energy consumption per unit of GDP. It all depends on what you are doing to generate that GDP. Quite likely, in this way, producing a 3000USD luxury watch is more "energy efficient" than steel industry. But we can't all make watches, do we?

Similarly, some countries have resources that help them generate GDP in an energy-efficient way. Tourism is just one of them.

 

I agree but...

Haven't we developed all the Hydro power possible her in the US?
If we are serious about effecting GW and getting out of the middle east, solar and wind power, not even on a good day, ever power our electrical grid and spending money hand over fist and wanting badly will not make it so, not in the near future, unfortunately. If someone thinks we can please educate me on how many wind turbines and solar panels it it would take..

Today we could produce zero CO2 and have all the electrical power we want.
I would be more impressed if we developed solar, wind and nuclear power and powered the grid with that and get off of CO2 producing gasses such as oil and coil and brought back the electric cars using that grid.
I lived onboard two aircraft carriers with two reactors for over 8 years, nuclear is safe and can be made safer with research and investment. Think about this..
No deaths from three mile island or any other commercial nuclear plant in the US according to NRC.
But how many deaths are caused by lung cancer and other health issues from byproducts of carbon emissions that produced smog and ozone.

If you are on a boat that is sinking you don't wait until someone hands you a fancy pump, you might sink waiting, so start bailing with what you have at hand. :huh:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 26 2007, 11:58 PM) [snapback]485941[/snapback]</div>

who are you to define "fair share"?

wait 10 years and watch how china will increase its energy consumption as its economy grows. it has already surpassed us in greenhouse gas emissions i believe. it is only a matter of time before they out consume us on energy too.

our share of energy use relates to the maturity of our society and economy - and it is unfair to look at it globally - you need to break it down per captia or per person.

and what is wrong with consuming more? it allows us to employ 96% of our population, provide healthcare for all of them (only 15% are uninsured including 10-15 million illegals here, etc), it allows us to develop new technologies to better life, it allows us to help those struck by natural disasters, it allows us to feed over a billion people.... so what do you want?? i have a solution - start building nuclear powerplants.. and now with prices increasing, the marketplace will start heading towards greater and greater efficiencies and new technologies.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jul 27 2007, 04:26 PM) [snapback]486081[/snapback]</div>

I say nukem all before it's too late! To hell with those yellow bastards!
How do they dare to consume our energy...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alexstarfire @ Jul 26 2007, 08:43 PM) [snapback]485870[/snapback]</div>

You see energy efficiency or consumption tied to GDP because as you can see from the chart, most countries that are very energy efficient are also very poor. They are energy efficent because energy is not available to large portions of their populations. The argument is that increasing energy efficiency reduces the standard of living for the population. You also see it connected because it allows western countries to feel better about using a huge percentage of the world resources.

Take the chart I provided for example. You will see that the US has the highest productivity of any country in the world. How much of that is due the productivity of our system and people and how much is due to social conditions? For example, vacation. The average full time worker in America has 2 weeks of paid vacation and leaves 1 to 2 days unused. Part-time workers in the US usually have NO paid vacation at all. American women get no paid maternity time off nor do American fathers. Compare that to Europeans who get on average of 6 weeks of paid vacation per year and up to a year of paid maternity leave. Some countries give the fathers paid leave as well. This is great for the employee and families but horrible for productivity. It has nothing to do with energy efficiency though.