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Fuel induction service Thursday. Check engine 420 today. Detergent in fuel line?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by brightlights, Feb 6, 2021.

  1. brightlights

    brightlights Junior Member

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    2008, 160k miles, runs like a peach. Went in for oil change, replacement of failed TPMS system, and regular maintenance Thursday. Mechanic, who specializes in hybrids and who has taken care of this car in my 70k miles of ownership, recommended fuel induction service. My fuel efficiency lately has not been what I thought it should be based on the last few winters, I said let's do it.

    I drove car about 40 miles, check engine light came on.

    Went back to mechanic's sister location (local company, 3 locations) as they were open on Saturday and my regular location was not. The mechanic read the code, P0420, and asked if they had done a fuel induction service. When I said yes, he said that if not all of the detergent is flushed from the line, it can cause the car to pop this code and that the solution was to drive the car to vaporize the remaining detergent. I therefore drove the car. About 70 miles later, during which the car was running absolutely as normal (actually, substantially improved MPGs over what I had been getting- 50 vs. what had been 42-43, thank you winter- also, possibly thank you to the induction service) the check engine light came on again.

    Now as I look up the code I'm worried about the catalytic converter.

    A couple of questions here.
    - Is that "detergent in the line" thing legit?
    - Is that a plausible reason for the light to be on a second time?

    I'm thinking that out of an abundance of caution, I need to be driving a different car to get where I need to go tomorrow. I'm taking the car in to my regular mechanic on Monday.
     
    #1 brightlights, Feb 6, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  2. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    I have once or twice over the years seen a P0420 after performing an injector- induction cleaning. Can't say if the cleaning chemicals affected the converter or oxygen sensor directly, or if having cleaned the injectors altered how the engine ran enough that the cat could no longer handle the exhaust gasses being produced. In both cases the the monitor test results had shown that the cat test was barely passing before, then barely failed afterward.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    If your mechanic convinces you to install new catalytic converters, ask him what he plans to do with the old ones since the gen2 prius cats sell for ~$1200 scrap value. Too may times, shops are telling people they'll swap their exhaust and only charge them 200 or 300 dollars for the new one.
     
  4. brightlights

    brightlights Junior Member

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    Can you expand on the monitor test? Is this looking at readings taken before and after the cleaning, or is there enough info stored that I'd be able to look at this with a post-test only?

    Good to know, and thanks for reminding me how expensive it's going to be if it is the cat... :)
     
  5. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I believe since you live in Maryland, you can use an aftermarket system, commonly available from $150-400 depending on model. I've swapped all the Gen 2s in my family to aftermarket to pre-empt the theft now occurring nationwide.

    One thing I've been amazed about is how much carbon dust comes out of these when you blow compressed air through them. After removing, I typically connect the compressor to an air multiplier blow gun and blow air through it from both ends and through the O2 sensor hole. Clouds of carbon come out. I had one that had a P0420 prior to removing, but 've never reinstalled one afterwards to see if it cleared the codes. Could be an interesting experiment to try though. I've read a leaf blower can accomplish the same thing.

    In the big picture, a P0420 is not always the end of the world. I drove a white 2005 with a P0420 for about a year and still got 50-52mpg the whole time. Car got totaled when a SUV liked my lane better and nudged me off the road, so I never got to mess with it.
     
    #5 TMR-JWAP, Feb 7, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  6. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Is Baltimore a carb state?

    How often do you check the oil? If never because you got a guy the car may be eating oil and has fouled the cat that’s way more
    Plausible then “fuel induction cleaning”?

    which is that exactly from your guy?

    If The dealer does that it means putting a bottle of Techron in your tank. Most would think it’s a thorough scuba dub dub
    Of the throttle body bore with carb cleaner but that does not see any fuel but is part of the induction system.
    I have done that many many times and put maybe 20 bottles of Techron in the tank in the last 13 years and neither has caused a 420.

    btw that code is no big deal the car will run fine. One of my cars has had one for a few years it’s the gas tank vapor system and a real pain to find.

    you just won’t pass inspection.
     
  7. brightlights

    brightlights Junior Member

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    Yes, MD is a CARB state.

    I don't check the oil as often as I should, but at least once in between changes (every 5000 mi, synthetic.) Habit from my old Civic, which wanted to drink oil like I drink coffee. I don't find it to be using more than it should.

    The fuel induction service they perform is the actual "take out and clean throttle body," not just "feed it a bottle of Seafoam and call it a day."

    I need the car to run effectively and pass emissions testing, which it's due for as soon as my county reopens the VEIP stations to their intended purpose instead of drive-through COVID testing sites. So... ETA unknown!

    Shoot, @TMR-JWAP , you weren't kidding about the sale prices on eBay. Apparently $1400 in "not working or for parts" condition is not unreasonable.
     
  8. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Pretty sure California and New York are the only states that are restricted for aftermarket Prius converters. There are plenty of options of EPA approved replacements available for the other 48 states.
     
  9. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    This can all be due to the O2 sensors near the CAT too.
    Sometimes they can be cleaned but more often replaced.
    A LOT less expensive than a new CAT.

    It could be just a coincidence that it happened when it did too.
     
  10. brightlights

    brightlights Junior Member

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    In case anyone else needs this information later...

    Car went back to the usual shop earlier this week and the GM looked at it this time. After additional diagnostics and an extensive road test, he agreed with the other location's assessment that it was likely detergent residue in the lines and said that in some cases he has seen it take up to 2 full fuel fill-ups to clear. He turned off the light and cleared the code. About 150 miles later it came back on. So it goes. I'll go back in if it doesn't click off after 2 more fuel cycles.

    Cat's fine. O2s are fine. Drives happily. Apparently, to answer my first question, this is a thing!
     
  11. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    If the check engine light keeps coming back on, then something is NOT fine. It keeps failing the catalyst test - could be a small exhaust leak, the air fuel or oxygen sensors are not quite good enough- or the cat is itself.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.