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Fuel Prices Spike

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by eheath, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Pretty much expected here around Chicago, and mirrors the previous several years.
    Image from GasPriceWatch
    [​IMG]
    Last year, the prices were about the same, and we know where it is going.
     
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  2. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    The twice a year spikes are national and not related to supply and demand, oil prices, gas taxes (the cause of regional differences with some states pro-American with high gas taxes and some states anti-American with low gas taxes).

    The spikes are due to twice a year profiteering by oil companies. We see it every year, same time, same phony story about how it is maintenance and "changeover" due to anti-pollution regs.
     
  3. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    There is a sine-curve-like trend in gas prices with an upward bias every year. One can track this on gasbuddy.com

    Except for the aberration that was 2008/2009 this is generally the track of fuel prices...

    • The 'lowest' point of the year is Jan 1st.
    • Immediately after Jan 1 prices begin climbing through the winter and early spring.
    • Prices then peak in the Mem Day - July 4th period. ( notice that TMS likes to have all its new Prii models in stock and ready to roll by March ).
    • Summer time is often a plateau or slight moderation of pricing
    • After Labor Day ( excluding outliers like Katrina ) prices decline slowly all the way through Dec 31, where if everything is perfect for the fuel suppliers, the prices are higher than they were the past Jan 1st.

    Then the cycle begins again, just at a higher starting point thus ending at a higher starting point as well. Wash, Rinse, Repeat every year.

    We need NatGas to come on line as quickly as possible in order to break this cycle and offer a real competitive fuel for petro-based fuels. When diesel starts getting up to these highly elevated levels the big diesel users ( the least efficient liquid fuel users on the road ) really have to pay through the nose to make their trucks go.
     
  4. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    Further ^^^. IMO the 'gummint' is not at all against spikes in fuel prices, for a number of reasons.

    1. Like it or not Big Oil has many friends in government.
    2. But one of the first findings of the Cheney Energy Task Force in 2007 was that the US driving population had to be taken out of their BOF vehicles ( SUVs and trucks ) for day-to-day driving. What better way to do it than to 'allow the market to do its thing' and punish the least efficient users in the wallet.
    3. The higher liquid fuel goes the more attractive NatGas is for the very worst users ( big rigs ) which then encourages the conversions to the newest NG/Diesel hybrids.
    4. XOM is the largest holder of NG rights in the States, it wins both ways.
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Here in Texas we get some changes with changeovers to winter/summer blends, but spikes are caused by global oil prices. Last year we had a major spike in California because of regulation - that was ended when the govenor changed suspended the regulation. This is anouther california induced spike along with a spike from a real pipeline problem in the midwest.

    I do not feel that California because it causes gasoline price spikes is more patriotic than a state like texas that aims for stability. For america to reduce oil dependance the right place is a national tax, not a state scheme to cause shortages and hurt the economy. Here is a 8 year chart. Let me see if you can discern anything from it. I'll give you a clue, it mainly follows the oil price chart.

    Historical Gas Price Charts - GasBuddy.com
    Here is the last year LA, Austin, and National with extra spikiness in California
    [​IMG]

    Then here is 8 years with oil prices and national gasoline

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    Then to exacerbate the situation here at home...

    I have good news and I have bad news. Depending on how you look at things they are one in the same.

    Record Oil Exports Shrink Trade Deficit as U.S. Fills Energy Gap
    Record Oil Exports Shrink Trade Deficit as U.S. Fills Energy Gap - Bloomberg


     
  7. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    It was still over $18B for the month and that was remarkably low because of the dip in the price of oil.

    >= $18B/mo / 308.745ppl >= $58 per person per month.

    And people wonder why the government's pursuing a PEV policy.
     
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  8. Munpot42

    Munpot42 Senior Member

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    The gas tax should have been indexed to the rate of inflation years ago.
     
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  9. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    Same scam twice a year as the graphics note. Prices spike summer and winter, regardless of price off oil or anything else. Just price gouging by the highly profitable oil business. Idea that it is due to "changeover" or "maintenance" is clearly false and laughable...at least for Prius owners.
     
  10. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    When I drove my Bimmer high gas prices would be a bummer. I recall just not driving far outside of work. Now with the Prius I just don't think about it. This is the best car with respect to economical driving.
     
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  11. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I've added the price of oil to the charts. If you can't read them, have someone else interpret them for you.

    When we use google no one really says price gouging. When you buy a i anything same thing. Price of gas is not very effected by the profits of the oil companies, which is less than a nickel per gallon of gas, normally around 2 cents. The largest cost is oil, which is set by opec, next taxes, then the price of spot shortages caused by poor regulation.
     
  12. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    There are price pressures to increase gasoline prices in California and the north east because of refining constraints. The bulk of the country is predicted to have lower gasoline prices compared to last year. There are wild cards always. Heat with nuclear iran which caused oil prices to increase last year could happen again this this year, and cause similar or worse problems. Syrian problems could spill over into Iraq and cause gulf oil problems. The politics of the middle east is hard to predict, but has a great deal to do with oil prices. They are expected to be more stable this year than last, that along with more north American oil makes me think lower gas prices before taxes in most of the US
     
  14. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    You seem to be confused about the twice a year price spikes that the oil companies organize that are completely independent of the price of oil that year or any year for that matter. It is oil companies using phony claims of "maintenance" and "government clean air regs" as excuses for their very predictable twice a year profit boosting price hikes.
     
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    There are deniers who'll swear on their dying breath, that the entire crust under the U.S. is swimming in so much (cheap) oil, that it'll last for hundreds of years ... because they heard some dude on the TV - who heard an oil person say so. Thus, in their minds, it's the green-ie tree hugging right that's stopping the oil companies from drilling (as much as necessary) util we've extinguished our near 17 trillion dollar debt. This, they'll believe from the oil companies. But when the prices spike, the oily companies are dishonest - not telling the truth about really needing to spike prices. :confused:
     
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  16. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Just do this little trick, multiply the amount that you think oil companies are gouging us, but the number of gallons of gasoline. Big number huh. Do you think they are lying and their profits are 20x higher than they are reporting.

    Or you can understand that the state of California requires an expensive change over twice a year, and they require expensive changes for multiple formulas, and makes sure with other large amounts of regulations that oil will not be imported from other states, and no one will open an new refinery in California. This regulatory burden far exceeds anything to have clean air, which could be done with many fewer and simpler rules.

    EPA requires some much less expensive change overs and give the oil companies time to stagger them.

    Please stop trying to spread your own ignorance. At least inform yourself of the rules carb put in place in 1996, and the new ones it put in place recently. You could read the OMB analysis of the costs. Or you can blame the oil companies because its easier to blaime them than the politicians that caused the problem. Note those California politicians keep trying to find evidence of price gouging and they can't outside of CARB.

    heh heh. I am not sure about all of them, but Exxon, Shell, and chevron agree with you about the amount of oil that can cheaply come out of the ground. Let's face it though with $90+/bbl oil there is a lot more of it that technology can bring up. They being profit machines will try to get to drill more on government land, but they aren't the ones saying that the US is swimming in cheap oil. We should make sure that we don't kill the environment while we are bringing up the expensive oil. We probably need higher oil taxes to help the country use less, but the money shouldn't be going for new spending on new stuff the politicians want. It also means electrification and/or natural gas powering the vehicle fleet is needed and the government needs to help that along. You can't haul cargo in a prius.
     
  17. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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  18. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    Thank you for the oil company public relations blurb on why they raise the price of gasoline and heating oil twice a year. Can you understand it is phony claim. Oil companies make huge profits from this scam. As far as the "oh noes I needs refineries" canard, probably the biggest oil company lie of all as they are EXPORTING US oil due to US recession.

    US needs to cut oil use by 50% (matching other developed nations) and raise gasoline tax by $5 (matching other developed nations) to pay for the $14T oil war debt run up over the last 30 years.

    Oh my...we can reduce the refinieries by 50%...imagine that.
     
  19. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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  20. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...I am hoping I heard this wrong or it was a mistake, but the guy on the radio (CBS national news on top of the hour) just said Gasoline prices expected to go to $5 soon due to refinery problems. Just paid $3.86/gal to fill the Prius as he was talking, and that's one of the cheapest stations aound here.