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Fuel Prices Spike

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by eheath, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My favorite part of the article:
    So "friendly_jacek", what is your game?

    You should realize many of us remember a decade of Prius-skeptics who felt no shame or inhibition when making the most transparent and easily disproved claims. In this case, not only is the article dated from that sad time but it cites this as their source:
    20080700_ciep_energy_jesse.pdf

    Now what was really interesting in this source was this:
    Source: 20080700_ciep_energy_jesse.pdf

    Excellent credentials but embedded in the report is this quote:
    Source: ibid

    You see, we don't just take someone's claim or cute title. Experience has shown the best approach is to read the article and any cited sources. Pay attention to the authors and their other work. Usually someone who tries to fool us one will have no inhibition about trying it before or later. But credibility is hard to build and too easily lost.

    Bob Wilson

    ps. Experience has shown looking at a reporter's other works can often give a clue about their objectivity versus goals and objectives. Mostly, Kieth Johnson of the Wall Street Journal is just another business hack . . . big woof. But in an article Feb 8, 2013, came this paragraph:
    Source: Kerry Doesn’t Commit on Keystone Pipeline - Washington Wire - WSJ

    Here it is three months after the Presidential election and still, bitter grapes. I'm seeing a press release, cosy with the petro industry, 'spokesman' who has moved to DC to be closer to the petro Congress critters and no news from this source.
     
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  2. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    I'm hoping it is right. The value of my used Prius will go up when I trade up. And people will use less oil. Shame it is not the government taxing oil use to $5 and paying down the US $14T oil war debt
     
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  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    $5 gas? The only place in the continental US I see this predicted this year is California. There are refinery problems that may keep prices for the rest of the country up here for a while though and they should peak for everyone but California around Memorial day weekend.

    Bob, IMHO he posted it to reply to a point that I made that most people understood that we can't frack our way to cheap oil. That the industry was not pushing this agenda, only some radio personalities and politicians. I would say having to go back to 2008 proves that point, in the opposite direction. We don't see much of the same crap anymore. Back then people blamed bush for high oil prices, now they blame Obama. All the replies to said stupid editorial showed even in 2008 no one believed it. Reducing oil consumption from any econometric model that includes a monopoly like opec is likely to reduce total cost. Even if low consumption reduces exploration the gallons used times the money per gallon will end up much lower. Consumption is high though! That means conservation reduces cost per gallon and number of gallons used. There is plenty of investment going on.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    At 63, I've earned my old crumudgeon creds:
    Debate and discussion is always good but to dig up this old chestnut, except as an example of 'false claims in print' . . . not the best practice.

    Oh BTW, 'you kids get off my grass!' (I didn't mention the species of grass.)

    Bob Wilson
    <feeling cranky today>
     
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  5. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    At what age do we get that crumudgeon credit? I must be darn close.

    I did hear a little more on $5 gaso today, so it was not a mistake, but perhaps press hype.
     
  7. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Bob, you need to lighten up some and improve your sarcasm reading.

    But seriously, no one points to the true cause of gasoline prices (and all comodities): money printing by central banks and rampant commodities futures speculation.

    Peak cheap oil is obviously a part of that but doesn't explain the rapid delta in fuel prices lately.
     
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  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Look at the bright side - now you are paying more road tax. So maybe the legislators will get off our backs and not try to jack up road tax rates for hybrid and electric car drivers.
    :)
     
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Most states and the federal government charge a flat fee per gallon, not a percentage for road tax. That means that the taxes don't exacerbate price spikes, which is a good thing. Unfortunately the federal gas tax of 18.3/gallon was set in 1993, and currently the government spends close to 30 cents/gallon on road work, funding the difference by congressional approval through deficit spending. The President in his SOTU said he wanted to improve infrastructure, which means "spend more". It is one of the few areas of government spending that seems proper to increase, but we should pay for it. If taxes rose to 50 cents a gallon, perhaps when these temporary spikes happen, they could give people a gas tax holiday to not rattle the population. To do that they need to raise normal tax levels though.

    California is a different case. Regulatory issues and high fuel taxes seem to cause extra spikes. I would have the federal government charge a $1/gallon CARB stupidity tax for current regulations. It could lower the tax on these times, and subsidize refineries to make changes for anti-competitive Carb rules. Since CARB policies seem to want to send gas to $6/gallon through regulatory spikes, the federal government should be able to make revenue from it, instead of the cash just getting pissed down the drain. If carb reduced the number of formulations, and removed the low carbon fuel regulation the extra federal taxes could go away.
     
  10. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    Filled up yesterday at $4.36 per gallon. If you hunt around you can get a dime lower. I could not imagine what a SUV is paying to fill er up now a days.
     
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I get more people asking me about hybrids during these fuel spikes than any other time. 3 of the inquiries have lead to hybrid purchases. Today I had another person asking me. Just sayin ... spikes ain't all bad.
     
  12. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    Nothing to do with CA's progressive policies on gas tax and emissions. The regulations and emissions are not "spiking" every summer and winter as the gasoline prices do every year. There is no connection.

    The claim that the twice year prices hikes are tied to environmental regulations or gas taxes or refinery maintenance are patently falses.
     
  13. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    Electric prices are much more stable than gas prices. Utilities cannot raise electric prices without PUC approval I believe. The EV is looking better to smooth out transportation costs than the ICE car.
     
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  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    You may think that it is just like the rest of the country, but that just shows you can't read the news
    Southern California sees record one-month rise in gasoline prices - latimes.com
    Note, there is no environmental reason the switch can't take place by mid march so it can stagger. That is pure regulation to separate california into special markets.

    It even gets manipulated by its own financial speculators.
    California Gasoline Gains on March Trading, Lower Inventories - Bloomberg

    Now I know it won't be popular with Nancy Pelosi, but if the government just added a $1 tax, and played with the money to stop the speculation, gave some back to the oil companies so that they would stagger refinery maintenance, someone would actually get to keep the money. I think some in California like it this way, but it is entirely poor regulation that set up the system. Yes special Federal California carb stupidity tax of $1, until they fix the rules. Then some voters in California might actually understand who is closing the markets.
     
  15. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    The "news" is ridiculous. Prius owners above all know how sill they "news" is on Prius.

    As for the claim that twice a year, like clockwork, gasoline price hikes are due to regulations or taxes, since the taxes are not changing twice a year there is ZERO CONNECTION.

    The oil companies have a win win. They hike the price twice a year to raise profits, the make obviously false claims it due to "regs" and "maintenance". The win by making profits, the win if public is foolish enough to believe them and elect oil company stooges (current VA gov. for example) who will get rid of gas taxes and environmental regulations so they can make even more money.