1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Featured Full-scale Ammonia Engine Test Announced

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Trollbait, Nov 22, 2020.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,992
    11,479
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    "Wärtsilä, along with Knutsen OAS Shipping AS, Repsol, and the Sustainable Energy Catapult Center, will begin what they say is the world’s first long-term, full-scale, testing of ammonia as a fuel in a marine four-stroke combustion engine."
    Full-scale Ammonia Engine Test Announced - Diesel & Gas Turbine Worldwide

    Ammonia and methanol are seen as the top two fuels for reducing carbon emissions in the shipping industry. Batteries simply aren't practical for crossing an ocean. Ammonia can be made from green hydrogen, and has a big advantage over hydrogen when it comes to storage and transport. 5% added to gasoline is reported as possible without modifying current cars. It can also be used in a fuel cell, and article mentions another project working on that.

    The title pretty much reports the news. This will be the first test of ammonia in an engine. Done in a lab, the goals are to study how the compound combusts in an engine. From there, they can design engines to make better use of it as a fuel.
     
    hill likes this.
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,828
    8,144
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Wonder if someday bunker fuel can be done away with. Bunker fuel is a far cry from clean right there.
    .
     
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,992
    11,479
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Until a couple years ago, my place of work was using No. 6 fuel oil for heating and steam. I think that's as close as you can get to burning bunker oil on land.

    They did start reducing sulfur in even the bunker oil last year.
     
  4. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    11,039
    4,491
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Every fuel type has its risk... I'd choose Methanol over Ammonia every time. The way people have lost limbs to ammonia leaks in industrial accidents is hideous... What's more an ammonia leak is way more dangerous than a gasoline leak:

    "Every year ammonia refrigeration systems cause accidents and explosions in large commercial factories across the United States. Although large companies are aware of the risks of using ammonia refrigeration, it is very important that companies inform their workers of these risks as well. Workers who may be exposed to ammonia or become victims of an ammonia blast should know the potentially lethal effects of this chemical. Even a small leak in these refrigeration systems can have deadly consequences if not caught in time. Ammonia refrigeration is very dangerous because when the chemical is mixed with air in the 16%-25% range it can cause a large explosion capable of leveling an entire building. The ammonia itself is also very toxic and is corrosive to the eyes, skin, and lungs. Workers involved in ammonia accidents of this type are likely to sustain severe injuries and burns if they survive. Even though ammonia is a serious health hazard, many large corporations choose to use this type of refrigeration because of ammonia's heat transferring properties, its cost effectiveness, its wide availability, and its low impact on the environment." Will Dangerous Ammonia Refrigeration Systems be Phased Out? | Norfolk-Portsmouth Injury Law News
     
    #4 PriusCamper, Nov 22, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
    Prius Maximus likes this.
  5. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,118
    6,665
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    The whole trick with bunker fuel is that if you don't use it as fuel, you are... doing something else with it. Because you have it. It's what's left after you've sold off all the nicer cousins from the oil.

    So you either make sure it meets some minimum standard and sell it, or you pay to have it removed as hazardous waste. Easy decision there.

    Bunker fuel doesn't go away until petroleum usage goes away. But hopefully we can use it in furnaces that will handle it more thoroughly than ocean-going cargo ships.
     
  6. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,590
    1,608
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    Conversion to tar would be best considering our asphalt shortage causing poor use cases of cement in northern states

    Cement roads seem to be garbage after one winter asphalt seems to last longer
     
  7. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    2,961
    2,314
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I think you mean concrete roads. And I think you have it backwards.
    They make things like overpasses with concrete that last decades while the asphalt roads on either side have to be ground off and repaved over many times while the concrete remains untouched.

    Mike
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,345
    15,498
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    PriusCamper likes this.
  9. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,590
    1,608
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    the concrete roads turn to garbage in about 1 winter up here, feels like riding a horse

    Despite Road Damage, Wisconsin Has Welcomed Heavy Trucks | Wisconsin Public Radio
     
    #9 Rmay635703, Nov 23, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,118
    6,665
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Unless there's some weird local effect, I think you have that exactly backwards.
     
    PriusCamper likes this.
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,828
    8,144
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    the trick with concrete is how much it's reinforced & sectioned. Unfortunately a lot of it isn't either.
    .
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,992
    11,479
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Your contractors are using cheap concrete, or DoTs are making heavy use of deicer.

    Pennsylvania had the first paved roads, and they used concrete. They didn't do well in winter, but formulations and designs were developed that did. Now, it was recently discovered that the calcium chloride we've been spraying on roads has been damaging to those concretes. We are going to need new formulations.

    https://drexel.edu/now/archive/2017/May/new-cement-recipe-stops-road-salt-degradation/
    Salt Damages to Concrete Roads Outweighs its Benefits | Giatec
     
  13. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    11,039
    4,491
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Out here on the west coast, and especially in California, all the interstates have an incredibly thick layer of concrete and rebar on all mountain passes where the road conditions create the greatest amount of wear and tear...
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,828
    8,144
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Montana, at least our area, uses gravel. Of course as the ice melts, so go the windshields. Good money to be made by those mobile guys that inject resin into the cracks to stop them from growing.
     
  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,562
    4,096
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Bunker fuel is cheap and container ships and oil tankers are heavy and thirsty. How many people are willing to pay more for imported goods. Out in the middle of the ocean a lot of the things that are unhealthy in big cities causes very little damage compared to big storms carrying garbage into the oceans. I would call this the last mile that needs to be addressed.
     
  16. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    5,884
    3,486
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    The concrete freeways in California are terrible at each expansion joint they are uneven and create a very uneven harsh ride.