Full thoughts on the new Prime (quick hits)

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by inferno, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    718
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    I should have said: hoping prices will be right.
    Right now we have only Netherlands prices which are promising.
     
    bisco likes this.
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    88,096
    39,284
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    thanks, me too! any announcement dates?
     
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    15,044
    6,790
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Well, it is smaller than the traction pack, and it also has to sized to hold a buffer to run accessories while the car is in motion.

    But as I alluded too, this could have been a mistranlation error.
     
  4. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    718
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    To my understanding it is much smaller (in capacity) than the auxiliary battery.
     
  5. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    4,976
    3,606
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I'm a power electrical engineer, and I'm racking my brain trying to figure a reason to need a batter between the solar panel and the lithium battery.

    I've thought about boost converter isolation, static building up on the solar panel, faults causing shorts of the lithium pack, and so forth.
     
  6. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    1,590
    671
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    It might have to do with variability of the voltage you'll get out of the Prime solar panel. From my count it looks like there will be 56 cells. If (warning big WAG assumption here) they are connected in series, then the voltage swings may go from 18V (nominal) to 33V (open circuit). So it kind of makes sense to go with a small battery that can handle wide voltage swings but not have to deal with constantly stepping up to the 208V of the traction battery which may also have to deal with constantly variable current as well.


    Unsupervised!
     
  7. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    4,976
    3,606
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    A small NiMh battery can't handle voltage swings any more than a big Lithium battery can. Certainly not a factor of two. The varying cell voltage has to be turned into nearly-constant voltage charge current by a charge controller anyway.
     
  8. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    1,590
    671
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Well from their own videos the ECU is the middle man for all of that anyways. Probably programmed for 3 paths: Solar to NiMH (wide voltage swings to small NiMH voltage), NiMH to Traction (small constant voltage to high voltage), and NiMH to 12V. Like I said a WAG.


    Unsupervised!
     
  9. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    1,070
    403
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    What's amazing about the Toyota hybrids especially the prius and probably the prime is the vast amount of mpg and efficiency possibility. Take my attachment for example. My ev for my pip almost matches the original prime estimate.

    Judging by that... If I drove the same way I could potentially get 45 miles ev in a prime. Close to the volt 2 at half the battery size! Also... Running on gas shouldn't make anyone feel bad at an average of 54 mpg which I'm sure more people would average around 60. That would be like a 30% improvement there.
     

    Attached Files:

    giora likes this.
  10. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    718
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    The trip you are showing was not on pure EV. Was it by gaming the sysrem collecting EV miles?

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  11. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    1,070
    403
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Pure EV is by definition correct?

    Yes, the entire trip was not an EV trip, it was hybrid + EV. I may have gamed the system, ie putting it in EV mode when the acceleration was low and/or costing and/or charging downhill. I believe this is like that "Auto" mode the Prime is going to have.

    The point is, I'm getting the high figures because of the EV miles counted. So if I drive the Prime the same way I should get higher. Yes though...it's not EV from start to finish.
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    15,044
    6,790
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    You might have done better in not trying to game it with EV mode use.
    Without a plug, all the energy used comes from gasoline. The battery captures some that would have been just thrown away, but the systems wants to keep a minimum charge in it for extended life. Use EV mode too much, which is easy with a small hybrid battery, and the car will end up burning gas wastefully to recharge the battery.
     
  13. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    718
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Better depends on what the driver wants to achieve.
    Sometimes, having more EV available is an advantage (and sometimes even a must) over best total efficiency of the system.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,861
    4,588
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Knowing when to use limited EV is key... hence Prius plugless success.

    I have trips I routinely take where I'll be able to take advantage of Prime's charge-on-the-fly ability. The new mode will allow us to replenish EV on the highway for use later when keeping the engine off provides a greater return.
     
  15. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    4,976
    3,606
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I was sort of thinking the other way.

    When an ICE is running at very lower power, it's very inefficient. There are 35 zones on several of my routes that use less than 4kW to keep going. Using the ICE there is quite inefficient and I was thinking of using charge mode (if lacking Ev range, obviously) to make the ICE more efficient and then use the energy later.

    On the highway, the ICE is already efficient unless you're on a slight downslope.

    Thoughts?
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,861
    4,588
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I routinely take highway trips, some multi-day with no opportunity to plug in, then a bunch of short-distance driving. That makes charge-mode a no-brainer.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    15,044
    6,790
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Inferno can correct me if wrong, but I thought his Prius didn't have a plug.
    The gen4 non-PHEV will display EV miles traveled. To me, this just seems to be for ego stroking and boasting, while possibly encouraging inefficient driving.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    88,096
    39,284
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    it's in his signature, that's what he was talking about. you don't get that display, or ev tracking in the gen 3.
     
    Trollbait likes this.
  19. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    873
    706
    1
    Location:
    Northeastern IL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Yeah, don't know why Gen 3 didn't have EV mile summary, I had it on my C. Not really useful for anything other than the occasional hey I've driven 4,800 miles without using a drop of gas... but it's nice to have.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    15,044
    6,790
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    But those miles did use a drop, and more, of gas.

    Without a plug, the electricity in the battery came from:
    • Regenerative braking. This energy would have just been thrown away otherwise, but to get moving to begin with took gasoline at some point.
    • Directly charging it by the ICE, through MG1.
    Tracking these EV miles separately is misleading; giving the wrong impression on how the hybrid conserves fuel. You can put an ICE car in neutral and shut off the engine while coasting. Many cars actually turn off fuel delivery while coasting now. It took the engine to get it up to speed first though. So claiming those engine or fuel off miles as gas free would be dishonest, but that is what is going on by tracking a non-plug in hybrid's miles under EV operation is.
     
Loading...