1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Future Owner Charging Questions

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by REBobBecker, Oct 14, 2023.

Tags:
  1. REBobBecker

    REBobBecker New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2023
    6
    2
    0
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I have questions about "best practices" regarding charging. I have access to a fast charger. Is it okay to plug the Prius in each time I park the car and leave the charger attached until I next use the car; possibly 3 or 4 days on average? Or should I schedule charging using the app (still attaching the charger each time I park)? Or is it necessary to plug in the charger only when I anticipate using the Prius, 4-5 hours before I need it? Obviously, I'm new to electric cars and hoping I can absorb as much knowledge possible to get the most out of the Prime once it arrives.
     
    bisco likes this.
  2. CruisnGrrl

    CruisnGrrl Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2023
    135
    118
    0
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE Premium
    Many will say only charge using a slow charge before you plan on using it. I do use the included slow charger and plug in when I arrive home. Because we're on "Time of Use Rates - rates vary during the day/night" I have it automatically charge at night after 7 pm, so if I get home at say noon and plug in it won't charge until evening. Because electricity here is cheaper than gas f I get home at noon and expect to go out later I will override the charge schedule and start charging right away. That being said even fast charging the car will only draw so many amps at 240v.
     
  3. REBobBecker

    REBobBecker New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2023
    6
    2
    0
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Thanks for your reply. Oddly, I'm in a situation where I'm not able to use the slow charger; no available outlet. However, my condo garage parking space includes a fast charger. So, my questions pertain to fast charging only. 1) Okay to always plug in? 2) Always plug in, but use a scheduled charge time? 3) Plug in 4-5 hours before driving?

    Obviously, choice 1 would be the easiest, I don't have rate concerns, but I want to maximize the life of the Prius batteries.
     
  4. Will B

    Will B Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2023
    299
    299
    0
    Location:
    Denver
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE Premium
    Good Question REBobBecker! Alas this is a nuance thing, so you will get a range of opinions. I doubt there is much debate that charging slower is "better" and not leaving the battery at 100% for days at time is "better" too, but the tough part is how much better and that is where opinions will vary. Kinda like changing oil every 5,000 miles or 10,000 miles. Every 5000 miles is "better", but in reality will you ever notice and if you do, will it only be in a few decades?

    I don't have fast charging at home and have decided that for my driving, there is no real need to even consider adding fast charging. I don't have a regular commute, so just consider the anticipated errands the next day and if I feel they may exceed the battery capacity I have, then will top it off overnight. I do try to time the charging to have it complete a few hours before my first errand of the day, but suspect I'm making my life more complicated than it needs to be. The neat part with a PHEV is if I guess wrong, the gas engine is there! The battery is good enough for 99% of my in-city driving and the gas engine is there for my multi-thousand mile road trips.

    I also feel that more than most other car companies, Toyota builds in a LOT of margin into their battery design and claims. My Gen1 Prius was still going strong after 20 years and 220,000 miles on its original traction battery before I gave it away when I finally got my Gen5.

    I hope your car is coming soon. In upgrading from a Gen1, driving it is way more fun than any Prius driver should be allowed to have! My priority has always been efficiency over fun, with the Gen5 you get a lot of both. I'm an engineer, so all the talk about better looks is foreign to me! :)

    will
     
    Uhcoustic, Louis19 and daisy555 like this.
  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,114
    1,665
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Always use charge schedule to charge it immediately before you drive. Never leave the battery charged over 60% or so, which is bad for the battery. The ideal storage SOC is around 30%.
     
    RandyPete likes this.
  6. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    886
    283
    0
    Fast charging on a Prime is only 3.3 kw, so not really fast. That’s still slow charging in the ev world. When the car finishes charging the power is disconnected, and I don’t think goes on again unless the charging handle is removed and replaced. If charging away from home, the cost of a replacement cord is like $800 if it gets taken or harmed. Like new ones on ebay are like $300. I wonder where they get them, but don't need to ask. Im sure it is all legit. It could be.
     
  7. REBobBecker

    REBobBecker New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2023
    6
    2
    0
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I'm not sure I understand. Never charge above 60%? Or never store for extended periods above 60%? I'm assuming the latter. And I'm assuming a maximum charge and not using the car for 2-3 days will not damage the battery. Yes/No?
     
    Gokhan likes this.
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,114
    1,665
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Yes, do not store the battery with a high SOC. (Avoid storing with a very low SOC, like below 10%, as well if it is possible.) Ideal storage SOC is around 30%.

    Of course, it is OK to charge to 100% SOC and then drive.

    Storing at a high SOC (or a very low SOC) will not damage the battery, but it will accelerate its capacity loss. That is why Toyota provides a charge-schedule function so that you can charge immediately before you drive.

    Personally, I am OK if I can store it overnight at less than 70% SOC. If I go on vacation, I leave it at 25% SOC.
     
  9. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    886
    283
    0
    I charged mine last night to full around five at the free level 2, drove home and it is sitting at 94% charge all night. I will take it out today on a store trip and get it down to 50%. Somehow I am not overly worried about such charging, it gets to a point do what you need to do and forget about analyzing soc and battery life.
    There has been a Tesla monopolizing this free charger night after night. I guess I got it just before his usual occupation of it. He is there many hours. He must have been in a tree watching, because as I was leaving he was racing down the road to get it before anyone else. I go around the corner on the way home, can see the charging point, sure enough he raced to the spot and got it. So funny how we get obsessed with free charging.
     
    Gokhan and AndersOne like this.
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,410
    48,779
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Eliminating free chargers eliminates the problem
     
  11. REBobBecker

    REBobBecker New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2023
    6
    2
    0
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I'm fortunate. I have a level 2 charger all to myself courtesy of my condo association. The association is making a commitment to EVs. I'm asking about charging procedures because I'm able to habitually just plug in the charger whenever I get out of the car. As a creature of habit, it's what I'd do unless it's detrimental to the longevity of the battery. BTW, I don't have the Prius yet, it's ordered. Could be January, could be July. There are not many being delivered here in Minnesota. And since I ordered the Prime, I'd prefer it not arrive until April, so I don't have to deal with snow for a few months.
     
  12. AndersOne

    AndersOne Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2023
    203
    119
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah its the same with notebooks, mobile phones and what not. Sure you can be super strict and try very hard to not get 100% as far as possible. But at the end its about convenience and whats the point of a battery with 100% health if you never dare to charge it fully anyway?
    In Germany, most companies (like shops) gave up on free charging. There were just too many people abusing the system, blocking and competing for spots and such. As for now I think only IKEA remains with free charging spots.
    As for paid charging - at least with the Prius is probably cheaper or same to just get gasoline.
     
    nerfer, daisy555 and bisco like this.
  13. GeoJ

    GeoJ Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2023
    153
    156
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    If I anticipate driving more than the charge left on EV range, I charge it overnight, fully. And then I'm good for another 45 miles of EV driving. I'm not going to worry about charging it to 60%, or to 100% just before I drive. It will not make that big a difference in my life, and sounds like a PIA. I will check back with you all in about 12 years, or 200,000 miles, whichever comes first.
     
    AndersOne, Louis19 and REBobBecker like this.
  14. GeoJ

    GeoJ Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2023
    153
    156
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    delete
     
    #13 GeoJ, Oct 16, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2023
    douglasjre likes this.
  15. Louis19

    Louis19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2022
    345
    304
    0
    Location:
    Laval Québec Canada
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Upgrade
    The way I see it is quite simple , The BMS (battery management system) chosen by Toyota is very protective for the battery . When it indicates 100% SOC ...in reality there is a safe margin of arounf 18% so really not a problem of over charging...and when it shows 0% SOC there is still about 20% left in the battery ...so not completely depleted. As for long term storage ,you mention 2-3 days of inactivity, I think it does not apply.....don't worry it is not a problem.
     
    douglasjre likes this.
  16. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,114
    1,665
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Charge schedule is provided by Toyota for a reason—to extend the life of the battery.

    It is extremely easy to use.
     
  17. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,114
    1,665
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    We are not talking about overcharging. We are talking about the optimal storage SOC.
     
  18. Louis19

    Louis19 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2022
    345
    304
    0
    Location:
    Laval Québec Canada
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Upgrade
    yep indeed , just want to outline that 100 SOC indicator is really approx 82% of maximum charge the battery can take..in my perspective the battery is in a safe zone for optimal storage for a few days.
     
    john1701a and Blizzard_Persona like this.
  19. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    3,401
    1,211
    1
    Location:
    NY
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    There is one more issue with charging that is not asked about or commented on yet and living in MN you are going to want to read up on in the owners manual. I'm referring to the traction pack heater. I think all will agree that when the temp locally drops below freezing that you are going to want to leave the EVSE plugged into the car for at most 3 days while not using the Prime. 2023 may have extended the 3 day limit of the Gen 4 Prime EVSE provided battery heater ( that keeps the traction pack above freezing temps ), so check it out in the manual.

    There is also ( preconditioning ) that you should check in the manual. It takes about 20 or 30 minutes and will warm up (in winter) and cool down (in summer) the prime before you drive (if you have the 30 minutes for it to completely finish, or after starting preconditioning you can stop it at any time by opening the door, unplugging the EVSE and drive away.
     
    john1701a likes this.
  20. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2023
    314
    194
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    So how does that work exactly? When the battery reaches full charge, doesn't it stop charging? If it stops charging, what good will leaving it plugged in do?
     
  21. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    1,348
    300
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A
    There are electric battery heating elements - by leaving it plugged in they can keep running (under thermostat control, obviously). The heating function normally operates for 3 days if unattended. There's a OBD config option to go into super-cold-area mode where it will keep operational for a month.

    I believe they only tell dealers to activate that setting when there's a danger of temperatures getting so low it won't be possible to start the car at all.

    I surmise the effect is 3 days of "battery will be warm enough to work reasonably well " and optionally another 28 days of "battery will be warm enough to work at all". Various sources say the temperature threshold for the 3 days is to start heating below 2°C, until 5°C is reached. I'm guessing the extended function has different, lower thresholds, as they're listed as two separate functions rather than just 1 function with two different timeouts.

    The user manual suggests -30°C (-22°F) is the point the system might fail to start, and designates only Greenland in Europe for the extended warming. The delivery inspection suggests dealer discretion on the setting is acceptable.
     
    HacksawMark likes this.