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Future Owner Charging Questions

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by REBobBecker, Oct 14, 2023.

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  1. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    Why can't you set it to start charging at 12:01? A.m.? Where to start charging at 11:00 p.m. And not stop until it's charged up?
     
  2. Peter3232

    Peter3232 Junior Member

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    Thanks for bringing up the possible effect on the gauges! TBH, I’m not sure if I’ll be into the gauges at this point in time, but this is good info nonetheless.

    I haven’t thought much about the Toyota app yet. Do folks around here find the app useful?
     
  3. peternumber2

    peternumber2 Junior Member

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    I'm sorry if the following questions have been already answered previously.

    Here is how i manage my charging routine:
    1) average daily consumption is 40% of total battery capacity
    2) every morning I start with a SOC of 75-80%
    3) When I'm back home I leave it plugged in and scheduled the charge to start at 5:30 in the morning (I've turned on the 8A charging current option)

    Apart from small adjustments, it seems that such scheduling fits my needs and allow the battery to work within recommended SOC for li-ion batteries.

    Am I being unnecessarily over-protective towards my battery or is is my battery really benefiting from the above scheduling?

    Are those SOC the real ones? i mean, is the shown 100% really a 100%, or is toyota masking the real SOC?

    thanks
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They are masking the actual SOC. Others have figured out what 100% on the dash really is, but the important bit to know is Toyota would pick something to keep the battery healthy. In the US regulations, the traction battery of a hybrid is classified as part of the emission system, which has mandatory requirements for warranty coverage. That extends to PHEVs. Toyota is the least likely company to risk the cost of warranty repairs by having a PHEV battery failing through over charging.
     
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  5. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    According to battery science (as I understand it today ) you're checking all or at least most of the boxes with your charge scheduling for improving your batteries number of charge /. discharge cycles over it lifetime. .

    Whether you're being overprotective of your battery or not is a matter of opinion. Some will argue this or that and give reasons why according to their own opinion, just as I'm also doing here. I'm in no way saying that you should always stick to your schedule and charge rate per your stated daily usage case. And since your schedule fits your needs and agrees with the science of battery cycle life, the only thing I'd worry about is the
    other half of the battery life cycle equation, ie what is the typical discharge rate ( km / kWh ) which there is both an ( Average per trip gauge ) and ( 2 adjustable graph screens ) for.
     
    #45 vvillovv, Jan 22, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2024
  6. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    You're pampering it. Toy builds in a buffer. 100% is 60-80% ish
     
  7. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    scangauge showed both upper and lower unused capacity at 15% for the Gen 3 Plugin. Car Scanner shows the unused top capacity to be the same 15% ( I haven't checked the lower unused capacity yet and am assuming it's close to the same 15%, until I have the time to check for sure) and I'm also assuming the Gen 5 is close to the same as there's only been one or two posts indicating the Gen 5 uses slightly more of the packs full capacity than the Gen 4 does.

    charge / discharge cycle life is rated by ever battery manufacturer using full battery capacity and the common understanding is that when not using the batteries full charge and discharge capacity the cycle life increases relative to the amount of capacity not used.

    So if asking if there is anything wrong with the charge schedule that meets the needs of the owner as is, is there really anything wrong if the owner wants to or is babying the high voltage battery when charging it?
     
  8. Will B

    Will B Active Member

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    @douglasjre: That would work, except I like doing most of my errands early in the morning, so the car wouldn't be fully charged in time. If I plug it in around bedtime, that works. The downside is I have to remember (i.e. set an alarm for nighttime) instead of just being able to tell the car to do it some time during the day.

    will
     
  9. Zeromus

    Zeromus Member

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    Surely, not charging over midnight is a software glitch they could fix :/
     
  10. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    Never experienced the glitch myself, but there are two simple workarounds:
    1. Have start+end entries to charge before midnight AND after midnight. You don't have to have a single entry spanning midnight.
    2. Set the start time before midnight and don't set an end time.
     
  11. Zeromus

    Zeromus Member

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    Cool, thanks. Good to know.

    This thread is quite helpful for those of us getting our cars soon and as new prius owners and I appreciate not just being told to read the manual since some things might not be super clear when doing so :) I never would have considered to even keep an eye out for this possible glitch if not for you guys.
     
  12. peternumber2

    peternumber2 Junior Member

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    Sorry I don't understand what you mean.

    I have a laptop (famous Korean brand), and there is a software limiter to the maximum soc:80%. User can enable/disable it easily. I've always kept it enabled, and after many years my battery is quite healthy (I'd say it has 60% of original capacity). When i Need full capacity I turn it on (it happens no more than four times a year). I'm quite disappointed by the Toyota's choice to "hardcode" the capacity limit. Why not let the user decide?? All batteries degrade over time, so explicitly warning the user not to abuse of the battery at full capacity would be fair.
     
    #52 peternumber2, Jan 24, 2024
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2024
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Your lap top has what, 6 cells in the battery. The previous Prius PHV has 95. Those cells in the car also see more cycling with regen braking and hybrid operation. EV batteries can see more abuse than a laptop beyond total charge level.

    There is more at stake to Toyota. They're the one that pays for warranty work if a hybrid needs the battery replaced because the owner charged it 100% all the time. There is also the potential negative press. They don't want the reputation Honda got from the Civic hybrid, which was so bad they had to their compact hybrid sedan by a different name for a generation.
     
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  14. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    Because some people are deliberately stupid, other people are not deliberately stupid. Either way, the information will be misconstrued. Common man can't handle that much information or facts. Look around you. You're surrounded by idiots who need a lockout from using the GPS while driving because they can't do that without crashing
     
  15. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    The Prius battery packs are also warranted for 10 years / 150k miles. It would be a lot easier to total a battery pack in 10 years / 150k miles if the owner could use the packs full capacity.
    This also fits in with the other statement I made about the discharge side of the battery pack health.
    There are ways of driving the Prius that uses a lot more of the battery packs power in a shorter time frame, one extreme example is using all the Prius EV range at 84 mph. That type of usage will raise the battery packs internal resistance and the only way I've found to get the internal resistance back into a normal range after it gone wonky, is to back off the pack power usage, a lot, until actually seeing the internal resistance settle back down to it's normal range. The DrPrius / DrHybrid app (new name) is a wonderful tool that shows the Primes individual cell stats including their internal resistance.

    I have some pics of the Gen 4 Prime gauges I mentioned above that I'll post if interested. I tried to make that part short since you mentioned not being interested in the gauges yet.
     
    #55 vvillovv, Jan 25, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2024
  16. peternumber2

    peternumber2 Junior Member

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    What about limiting the full capacity drainage to a max of 100 cycles per month, or something along these lines?
    And adding a big disclaimer saying you will harm your battery if you go beyond that?

    If I turn on my ICE car in freezing cold environment and push the revs to the limiter in every gear my warranty covers me, right? Why doesn't the warranty on the electric battery do the same if I abuse the battery? Costs are comparable!
    I guess the first scenario is just less likely to happen because the engine screaming would suggest the average driver to slow down....
     
  17. peternumber2

    peternumber2 Junior Member

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    Did I say I'm not interested?
    I am indeed! Thanks

    PS please leave a link to the discussion on how to install drhibrid as well!

    I think Darwin will take care of such stupids....
     
    #57 peternumber2, Jan 26, 2024
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2024
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Different warranties could play a part. Toyota put the warranty on the engine, and could easily void it if there is evidence of excessive abuse. The battery falls under the emissions warranty, and the federal government(in the US) has mandated minimum requirements for it. Toyota may be saddled for paying for more cases where the owner abused it. The battery probably costs more too.
     
  19. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    The DrPrius / Dr Hybrid app gets installed onto a phone or tablet from the app store of google play
    The app is initially free and can be used indefinitely as the free version. It also has a subscription ( $12 last I noticed ) for traction pack tests and other options that are not accessible with the free version.
    to read more and watch a few how to videos see Dr. Prius App

    Here are the pics I was referring to above showing the km/kWh gauges and graphics. I can't explain all of the numbers shown in the gauge, I was experimenting and switching between EV and HV modes during the 20 miles drive. And they are showing miles/kWh
    I'll see if I can switch to metric grab a few more shots of the dash. These were taken in September 2022
     

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    #59 vvillovv, Jan 26, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2024
  20. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    These days, that might require a lot more trust ( in juries, lawyers, and judges, especially when considering class action suits ) than I've read about in the past..

    When Toyota released the first Plugin Prius circa 2012 there was a recurring theme ( at least here at priuschat ) of owners wanting more EV range and or more traction pack capacity.'
    The programming of the usable traction pack capacity hasn't changed, much if at all, since. It's a formula that Toyota has used that has worked so far, but if enough customers want access to full traction pack capacity, Toyota just might allow it, if they can add stipulations to the traction pack warranty and track usage in the the battery ECU.
     
    #60 vvillovv, Jan 27, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2024