Future Prius Improvements

Your descriptions leave a lot to be desired. Stage I and II are different. Stage I is the tank to truck vapor balance system. This is pretty common in the process industry. "Sucking vapors out" is incorrect. It is a simple vapor balance system. Stage II is the system for pump nozzles to the tank and is used in fewer regions.

Gasoline trucks return to the terminal for fill, not the refinery. Refineries typically deliver to terminals (often via pipeline.) Not having worked in gasoline terminals directly I imagine it is similar to other loading facilities I've had limited experience with. In them vent vapors from tankers merge with other tank vents and typically are connected to vent condensers to minimize losses and emissions. The condensed liquids can be handled in various ways.

You have no idea precisely because it IS a BLADDER SYSTEM with resultant difficult in measuring both level and capacity. The bladder itself will expand or contract 10% or more depending on temperature--far more than a steel tank. That's a nasty combination, changing geometry, materials of construction issues, and level measurement issues. Add to that two complex vent/vapor systems balanced against one another and you indeed have no idea how much the tank will take.

A smart person would say, "Hey, why not have the Prius without the problematic and unnecessary bladder." Doing so will provide more capacity in a given volume of space.

Not sure where you are going with this as you are the one complaining about the "discrepancy."

I read of several on this forum putting in well over 12 gallons.

My Tundra has a "26.4" gallon tank according to the manual. I've put 24.8 gallons in it before and been over 24.5 several times. The gauge is indicating well into empty before the fill on those occasions. I've never run it all the way out to figure out where the end is. When I've had these larger fills the truck is parked on a slope that allows a bit more fill (not really an option with the Prius from what I see of the geometry.) So using more than 90% of the stated capacity of a tank is pushing it. My Nissan and Accord were similar.

That's baloney. I've read enough on here to realize that burping it is not the prevailing problem, especially since problems are occurring for some in the first few seconds of THEIR FIRST FILL.

Level indication issues and variable capacity are inherent to the bladder design, period. Added to that are vent issues because of the bladder's overly complex plumbing and vents. It is the complex vent system that leads to filling difficulty.

Maybe they should develop a more elegant system that works reliably instead? I have no problem with things that work well, but detest "improvements" that screw up something simple, like filling up the tank.

You mean like the bladder system??? If it doesn't work reliably or properly IT IS A STEP BACKWARD!

Like I said before, I'll be happy to let folks like you keep this step backward since you are fond of it. I'll stick with something that works reliably and sensibly.

 

i think we can all agree that we simply want more options, we have a touch screen. add the user controlled settings screen to configure auto door locks, headlight options, etc... there is no reason why we cant have a screen showing "car conditions"... engine, oil water temps, etc...

 

i have not heard of any "ford pinto" or "ford 150" incidents with the bladder, so i am saying it has no problems and it is pretty reliable. if the gasoline gushes out, it was either a defective pump or your fault

the manual says you don't really have to be concerened with bladder shrinkage unless your in -10 degrees, and why are all these
people so concerned with it, at 75 degrees

it is wildly reported that 1 prius pollutes as much as 456 cars. there are 100,000 prius cars and 500,000 pzev cars in calfornia. these technilogical improvements are the same as taking off 27,360,000 cars off the road

perhaps you should start reading some of the topping off threads on here

or trade your prius in, because it offers you no benefit, i would reccomend a bmw 328i coupe. just like all the other 215 cars rated,
it puts out the same 181 pounds of smog a year as a prius, and its annual fuel cost is only $450 more then a prius, plus you get bmw's superior maintenance plan, heck i heard you can even score free tires as long as you are under the maintenance plan. where are my free prius tires?? if i get a cut in my sidewalll bmw will just replace the tire, if the same thing happens in my prius, i am out $99-$150 for a replacement unless i buy road hazard, which i didn't have when i bought the car, plus bmw's i drive is much superior to any you hacks can come up with your little cute scan guages and stuff.

bmw would of just looked at all my tires (bridge stone turanzas 195 / 55 / r16) all uniformally worn down to 4/32" and just gave me a whole
new set, because bmw is superior. while i am stuck with a bill for $800 because i bought a toyota.

but since 1995 toyota has improved thier quality. back in 1995 and you bought a toyota pickup, you didn't get airbags, thier 4 runner would of given you a 40 % of killing the driver, no cigarette lighter port (but the hot wire was already in there) no right hand mirror because the goverment didn't make them do it, the rear step bumper was an option, because the goverment didn't make them do it.

the only thing really bad that toyota goofed up today is making you go back to the dealer to get sensors reprogrammed, where all the other cars do it automatically





5 litres less of gasoline at -14 degrees f/-10 degrees is not worth getting in an uproar about.

 

F.Y.I. RE: Bladder
The Prius meets the most stringent exhaust emissions standard, California's Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (SULEV) standard. The infamous bladder is one of the design features that helps qualify the Prius for this rating, due to it's low fuel vapor emmisions. Some posts seem like the poster thinks it as designed by Edsel Ford or some devious mad scientist or at best without purpose.
Lets not forget that the Prius has been a flagship for Toyota's energy efficiency automotive designs. The bladder is an integral part of that and hopefully occassional filling problems can be remedied in the future.

 

That is not the argument being made but you keep blathering away about it. STRAWMAN ALERT! :horn: Gushing out is not what I've referred to, but instead problems getting the tank to actually fill, as well as getting adequate level measurement.

I did a hand estimate and came up with about 10% shrinkage at low temps (and 15% over a wider range.) Guess what, the Bentley Prius manual says 10% at 14 F. Winter happens.

Perhaps you should read fuel tank/guage threads instead as your claims don't match what I've read in them. Topping off is the strawman argument you are making. It is not what I'm referring to. However, it is a convenient one for you to make in order to avoid any semblance of reality.

Oh stuff it. You really are going off the deep end trying to extend strawman arguments. The bladder tank is of no benefit to me and it causes a lot of other people trouble. That is a fact. I am taking special precautions during filling hoping to avoid the trouble. The bladder does mean that I can't run the tank as low as well, so it reduces range.

The vehicle itself does what I want it to, but there are things I would like to see improved. A no hassle gas tank is on the list. If they can figure out how to do it with a bladder, great. If they can't, the traditional tank would be just fine.

There is no consistency to your arguments as you were upset about that amount before. At any rate I'm not super concerned over the absolute quantity, so what is YOUR PROBLEM?

 

Lets see my list...

1) Those auto door locks sound popular with some. As long as they are optional that would be OK. I don't want them and I would turn them off.

2) I'd like an indication showing the ICE is running or not (don't want to buy a Scan Guage). Its just for information.

3) I want the cruise control to remember the last speed setting even after my speed drops below 25mph. This is my biggest irritation with the otherwise fantastic car. This is the way Hondas work.

4) I want one MFD screen that shows both a digital MPG, a single bar graph of the MPG, and the ICE/Electric diagram. In other words I'd like a single bar graph of instantaneous MPG on the ICE/Electric screen without removing anything from that screen. I find I have to constantly switch between the two screens. If the instantaneous bar graph (it could be narrower like 1/4" or 1/8" wide) were on the screen with the wheels I would leave it there most of the time.

5) I want bluetooth voice control without having to purchase the expensive built-in GPS. In other words I want it in package 2.

6) At least 20 mile electric only with plug-in charging.

 

I would love to see a quieter ride inside - more quiet insulation ?????

 

how much air is in your tires?

thanks!

 

i don't think they ever got the e mail.