Gas on to heat car - does it defeat the purpose

should be, although most of the wear is at startup. I have about 5,000 miles on my [small letter whisper] volt and it says I have 93% left on oil change. I think the manual says to replace every two years minimum though.

 

The PIP is 1 year

 

Using gas for heat is a bit mroe efficient, but only if you were going to need to use it anyhow. If you can do the whole trip on EV, including doing heat, why use gas.

My worse winter day was 76.5MPGe, which includes 12.9kWh of electric (fromt he wall) + a bit for gas (cannot stop the gas from running at that low temp, so it ran using .03 gallons twice). This was on 1/12/2012.. the min temperature was 5F (History | Weather Underground), the temp on the way home was a warmer 20F.

On days where its above 25F (where I can use just electricity) my worst day was 82MPGe as I had to have the heat blasting for people in the back seats (no seat heaters there).

My overall average for Jan 2012 was 105MPGe (counting gas). My average distance for a full charge was about 40miles per charge (I drive better than EPA estimates). My commute is 32-42 miles (depending on errands). I charge on 110v and only preheat the car if its < 25F outside.

The bigger issue among volt drivers is the stupid engine-running-due-to-low temps, so jan I burned .73 gallons but only 12 miles (.33 gallons) of that was because I exceeded 40miles in range, the remaining .4 gallons was just days it ran the engine for heat even though I would have been happy to just use EV heat and make my trip without out gas. Still the month overall was way better than any ICE car, including the PiP, would ever yield for my commute, using .73 gallons and 201kWh to cover 699 miles. I could have disabled ERDTLT, i would cut my gas usage in half, doubled my real MPG, and improved my MPGe a good bit.

In comparison, My two worse ever Ev mode MPGes was 46MPGe, when I was in EV mode to climb pikes peak. (no heat, no AC) when I was doing 100MPH for almost 10 miles, with the heat blasting, and burned through my charge in 18 miles (a few miles to get to the high-speed area). So climbing hills and going really fast are much worse than needing heat.

 

So climbing hills and going really fast are much worse than needing heat.

DUH! YA THINK?

 

You can regenerate some EV range back into the battery, like when going down a long downhill stretch. Given a long enough hill, it is possible to fully regenerate the EV range. But a long highway drive (50 or more miles) will not recharge the battery. You must plugin to the wall to fully regenerate.

 

It's based on total vehicle miles. It's every 10,000 miles, or once a year, whichever comes first. You are supposed to bring the car in every 5000 miles to have the tires rotated, brakes checked, etc.

 

Back to the original question of getting 10 miles of EV use without the heater. The fact that battery performance drops in cold temps has not been discussed. The OP probably wouldn't get 10 miles EV regardless of the heat setting especially if it's left outside or in an unheated garage.

Another variable: any highway speeds >62mph on the route.

 

In a non-hybrid, most of the engine wear comes from starting the engine at the low RPMs that the starter motor is capable of achieving. In a hybrid, the start is much smoother since MG1, being more powerful than a starter motor, spins it up to higher RPM than a starter motor would, so I don't think that starting the engine in a hybrid causes as much engine wear as it did in a non-hybrid.

 

Sludge us pretty much a thing of the past due to too much fuel thru carbs and poor oils not warming up fully. With todays Synthetic oils and todays EFI and Highly efficient ICE there is much less worrys when starting and stopping the ICE.

Dan

 

Do they pump the motor oil out of the sump and around the engine before starting it up or is there still some initial unlubricated wear with each start?

 

See Question: Engine lubrication | PriusChat

 

Thanks.

I'm going to use dry/wet starts instead of cold/warm since we are talking about weather temperatures alongside lubrication. Once the ICE starts each trip, all the other start/stops would be wet starts, with the engine still lubricated.

It sounds like the dry start is still a significant "wear event", compared to a wet start, but I don't think 1000 dry starts a year should be too much of a concern, just about every ICE sees that.

 

OK Rebound I think I stand by my post...since we apparently lost the OP ( who seems have lost interest in PiP) is apparently from Long Island NY which has very high electric rates like CA 20+ cents I am thinking. So I feel my comment that elec cost may or may not be cheaper than gaso is accurate and especially accurate for the OP...although I am not sure what the rates are today up there. Anyways, even if elec cost for most of USA is cheaper than gaso, what are we talking? minimum +$7000 cost for PiP Lithium battery and minimum +$15,000 for Volt Lithium battery to take advantage of lower elec costs vs gasoline? If we talk battery cost + elec cost, EV mode is questionable, except I can see Leaf EV in WA state is cheap option due to cheap elec + rebates. I can also see the special eco-need in CA for EV mode.

 

You said that it may cost more to operate an EV than a gas-powered vehicle. I demonstrated that you are incorrect. At 20 cents/kWh, the 50 MPG gas equivalent would be if gas costs $3.40/gallon. It's over $4 here, and our electricity is about 12 cents/kWh.

So, YES, **if** you live in some bizarre place that has the nation's cheapest gas and most expensive electricity, THEN you're about even. But those places are few and far between.

As for the marginal price of the PiP, it certainly isn't $7,000, it's more like $4,000. But we don't buy cars based on pure utility. If we did, BMW would sell no cars at all.

 

In another thread, NY based, the PiP currently leases for less than the Prius.

 

.... I am a pragmatist, if you can get great rental or rebate deals or just like the EV driving experience or whatever your preference, that is wonderful. Plug-in capability would be great to have feature. I really like the idea too of someday plug-in to your house for emergency power.

 

The PiP cost me $240 dollars more then the NON PiP three. for that just the heated seats alone are worth the 240bucks. Even if I NEVER PLUGGED IT IN ONCE. I know cause I was going to buy a THREE NoN PiP and install heated seats which were going to cost 350 bucks!

There is never a reason to not get a PiP IMO. Its always a win win. you will never get over 55mpg on NON Pip. But with a PiP that is the LEAST you will ever get. Im currently at 125mpg overal since new. On those days where i drive 100 miles or so, and use only 14 EV miles, i still end up in the 85mpg range.....still so far above any NON Pip.

 

IMO, your always better off using your EV capacity first and then your HV. If you have a set route and you know exactly how your energy usage can be optimized, then tinker with it. Some people like to reserve their EV for inner city and parking garages to achieve zero emmisions in those "special" places.

 

You don't really have a choice -- if you turn on the heater, and the temp setting is lower than the outside temperature, the engine will start.