Gas or Electric: Which one is cheaper for the Prius Prime!

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by noonm, May 2, 2019.

  1. Blue-Adept

    Blue-Adept Active Member

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    Electric is always cheaper than Gas for me. I have a 10.375 KW solar array and charge for free at work.

    Also use the free Point Stations when I can..

    Michigan gas costs about $3.00 a gallon.

    So even if electric is more I will still go EV for the feel alone.
     
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  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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  3. Blue-Adept

    Blue-Adept Active Member

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    Electric is always cheaper than Gas for me. I have a 10.375 KW solar array and charge for free at work.

    Also use the free Charge Point Stations when I can..

    Michigan gas costs about $3.00 a gallon.

    So even if electric is more I will still go EV for the feel alone.
     
  4. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Electric for us. Our town has two choices for community power. Traditional sources at 7 cents per kW, or renewable for a fraction more. We chose the renewable. As of today, this is what the difference is vs. gas. There are usage taxes above the kW charges of course. Prices are always a moving target.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. greenakina

    greenakina New Member

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    I vote Electric
     
  6. RobertZ

    RobertZ Member

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    I was just wondering about the gas vs. elect comparison.
    Yesterday at work I found a charger (ChargePoint).
    It's 6.6 kWH station so should take about 2.5 hrs for the full charge?
    They charge $1/hr. So that would be $2.50 for 30 mile range.
    Vs. $2.50 gas gives me 56 mile range...
    I think in this case gas is cheap because ChargePoint is charging too much...
    What do you think? Or did I miss some calculation?

    Thanks,
    Robert
     
  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    You are absolutely correct. For most public charger for fee, the cost of electricity is way higher than home electricity, making it totally uneconomical solution. In the case you encountered, the charge rate is $2.50 for ~6kWh or $0.42/kWh of electricity. In my case, even the home charge cost more than gas. Electricity at $0.195/kWh compared to cheap gas at $2.50/gal.
     
    #27 Salamander_King, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  8. noonm

    noonm Active Member

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    Yeah, most Lvl2 public chargers are not priced well for Prime charging. For reference, that $2.50 for 6.6kWh is the equivalent of a $0.38/kWh electric rate, making it much more expensive than gas in the US. I would stick to home charging or charging at 120V outlets as much as possible if you still want to maximize electric driving.
     
  9. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    If you’re looking at public charging just from your own financial perspective, how will more public charging stations be placed if we don’t help make that happen?

    I don’t mind paying a little more to companies who are putting more charging stations in, afterall how much more is it really and will that small amount make or break us?

    They need to turn a profit, and if they get me for a $1 here or a $1 there, I can stomach it as I am seeing more stations cropping up(y).
     
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  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Most people don't consider the true impact of that type of mindset... or haven't, until we share more experiences. Here's mine:

    Back in 2012, the ramp downtown I park at installed 2 chargers (total of 2 level-2 connections). That worked out great with my Prius PHV. I could recharge for the commute home. That usage fee added up, drawing the owner's attention. A few years later, 2 more chargers were installed, bringing the level-2 connection count up to 6. That was great! They would actually fill on some occasions too. Last Fall, those newer chargers went offline (some network issue), though charging was still available. The choice was to replace all of them with the nicer models. Now, we have 8 connections available. It's really sweet!

    That daily charging expense on our part was validation on the owner's part about that having been a wise investment. So, the investment grew. It's too bad that "pay forward" mentality isn't more common. There's no way of knowing if the owner actually made any money from the charging fees, but the benefit to others is undeniable. More chargers for people parking there is a win for everyone.

    Think about what the visibility of more chargers does for those considering a plug-in purchase.
     
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  11. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    In a word yes, Biscottis lives in red MA

    If you follow San Fran Biscos comments he has previously stated his electric rate is more expensive than gas and he doesn’t care and still plugs in as much as possible .


    There are also folks who live in states where the EV registration fees exceed the annual cost for a gas economy car and there are still EV owners in those states as well, although such taxes kill the used EV market.
     
  12. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I can tell you out here you see ALL of the available PHEV’s and BEV’s, so people are seeing te light in terms of alternatives:).

    Here’s a shot at the local bowling alley a few Sundays ago:

    28850E72-60F8-4EA9-8867-F26F79FA73AD.jpeg

    I was parked next to an e-golf at the library a few weeks back too ;).

    I was visiting a couple we haven’t seen in 3 years in Houston last weekend. They have an Audi A5, but thought about getting the e-tron. I pulled up the PlugShare app and showed them all the charging stations in the area and they were impressed. Even saw a few Tesla’s down there(y).
     
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  13. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    You have it correct. For the small battery capacity and relatively low charge rate of the Prime, Chargepoint stations rarely have power that is inexpensive. Their billing is more geared to BEV's with higher current draw. $2.50 for 6.6 KWh is about 38 cents/KWh, or about 4 times what I pay and more than most pay (exceptions perhaps CA on the highest tier and Hawaii).
     
  14. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    We absolutely are looking from our own financial perspective. If they change the billing to be commensurate with the power draw, then we will use them more. That's the free market in action. They can build whatever they want, but if the price isn't attractive to the users they won't get much business.
     
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  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    More plug ins than EVSE stations! There’s two more spots around the corner. After I took this shot, another Model 3 and an e-Golf showed up

    62765F91-6569-4874-B487-24E2AD30D0E0.jpeg

    Count:
    • Model 3
    • Fortwo ED
    • LEAF
    • Model 3
    • LEAF Plus
    • 1G LEAF
    • Ioniq PHEV
    • Prime
    • Prime
    • Volt
     
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  16. RobertZ

    RobertZ Member

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    Agree, I will let market decide if they want to install charging stations (I am not subsidising them :)).
    I really don't need the charging if it's not economical, I have done my part by purchasing plug-in and running on electric where possible.
     
  17. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    Where the Prime loses is when the public charging station bills by time. Most BEVs have 6.6KW chargers, which is twice what the Prime has (3.3KW), so the cost per kwh is twice as high for Prime owners when billed by time. In some states, billing by kwh requires the owner of the charging station to become an electric utility company, which effectively kills that option, leaving only the billing by time.

    BTW, the owners of public Chargepoint stations determine the billing, not Chargepoint. So any concerns about the pricing needs to be directed to the company or government entity that owns the charging stations. Other charging station groups, such as Blink, have other billing policies.
     
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  18. noonm

    noonm Active Member

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    Paying a little more? Sure.

    Paying 2-4 times the local electric rate? No thank you.

    Its an unsustainable option for non-high charging rate vehicles like PHEVs. Also, its not like this isn't a solvable problem. Either bill by kWh used (preferable) or adjust the price/time by the type of vehicle. I want to see more charging stations, but it needs to be done in a way to keep electric driving cheaper than gas if we really want to see it take off.
     
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  19. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Everyone does realize that the prime battery is 6.6 kWh that is available to fill?

    So even if the fee is 2x a normal local rate (let’s use my PG&E rate of $0.25/ kWh) and the battery is completely empty, we are talking about $3;).

    And how often are you charging where these rates apply:whistle:?

    Some adoption goes along way toward showing others the viability(y).
     
  20. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    I’ll let others overpay. I can drive home less expensively on gasoline than pay those rates.
     
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