Gas or Electric: Which one is cheaper for the Prius Prime!

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by noonm, May 2, 2019.

  1. CINQUIRY

    CINQUIRY New Member

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    question to clarify your statement: 133 miles driven take 33.7kWh of electricity and assuming electricity cost is ($.22 in Rhode Island) = $7.414. AND 7.414 divided by 133 = 0.0557. is my conclusion correct: $ 0.0557 x 54 ( average gas mileage) is $3.01 per gallon. feel free to correct my math and thinking.
     
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  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yap, that's right. At the electricity rate of $0.22/kWh and using EPA rating, the break-even gas price is just around $3/gal. If the gas price is less, then driving with gas only is cheaper, but as I said, the difference is not that much even at $2/gal. With 54mpg and $2/gal, the cost is 2/54=$0.037/mile compared to $0.0557/mile for the electric. Yeah, you pay ~2 pennies more every mile or $2 for every 100 miles. But, considering the benefit of not burning gas for that distance and the pleasure of EV driving, I think it is worth it.
     
    #102 Salamander_King, Sep 20, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  3. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I still can't figure why you poor folks in the northeast aren't burning tires in the streets over those electricity prices. :confused:
     
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  4. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Your math is right.
    But if and only if you are considering your average mpg and your average miles/kwh.

    Consider a few short trips where you don't get the "average" mpg during the warm up period.
    EV mode is superior in many of these cases by a larger margin.

    Mike
     
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  5. spudnut

    spudnut Active Member

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    I just received this month's utility bill, and once again, thanks to my grid tied wind, solar, and hydro electric systems, am again running a huge surplus. By the time early winter sets in, I'll have a 10,000 KWH credit, and try as I might all winter, (with an all electric home, whereas my neighbors in my rural area are all propane powered, at least for space heating) the best I can do by spring, when my production again exceeds my consumption, will still leave me around 4,000 KWH credit. I have been steadily adding to my electrical load, but obviously my 2013 PIP isn't up to the task. I have to admit, I have been eyeballing a new Bolt, as a way to remedy this situation, but the Prime keeps calling, as my work commute is only 13 miles, and down hill for 3 miles, with a1200' drop (but, darn it, uphill on the way home), my gas hog of a '13 PIP may be on it's way out. Maybe that smaller cargo area isn't THAT much smaller then my '13, and who cares if the rear seat doesn't fold as flat, I need to use more juice and less gasoline.
     
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  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Just curious, what kind of renewable energy system do you have? I have seen PV panels on the rooftop and a small tower with a wind turbine in the front yard, but I have never seen a hydroelectric system on a residential setting. You have all three? I have to wonder, at what cost for all the systems? I am wondering because, I am currently planning to install PV panel on the roof, but my payback period is more than 15 years, that's not even counting daily Prime charging of 6.5kwh
     
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  7. CINQUIRY

    CINQUIRY New Member

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    How long of a drive might a warm up distance be?? In order to obtain the “average” mpg.
     
  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    For a short trips of less than a few miles at 30mph on pure gas engine (HV mode) would penalize the mpg more than the same drive on pure electric motor (EV mode). For the same token, 25 miles driven on highway at 65mph on pure electric motor (EV mode) would penalize the miles/kwh more than the same drive on pure gas engine (HV mode). The engine warm-up cycle can be as short as a half miles to as long as 5 miles depending on outside temperature and engine coolant temperature. The battery does not need "warm-up" but there was a thread discussing that cold soaked battery having less range than the warmer battery with the same charge level, so there maybe some type of "warm-up" is needed for the battery to perform at optimal condition. The Average is just that, overall performance under various conditions. EPA average is standardized value for all Prius Prime and car does seems to perform fairly close to that rated EPA average of 54mpg, 133mpge for many people.
     
  9. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    On a 50-60F morning I recall seeing about 1/2 the normal mpg for the first ~5 minutes.
    So 25 mpg instead of ~50 mpg.

    Mike
     
  10. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    Yes, it is a complex question. I'm saving on my energy bill even if I don't charge the car. Where I live the gasoline rates are usually the highest in the country. On top of that, here ( central coastal California) the electricity rates are punitive. The more electricity that you use, the more it costs per KWH. On the other hand, they encourage EV use with time of day rates that are 1/2 the normal rate outside of afternoon/evening hours. The way that it works out for me is that my bill is about $20 a month less than it used to be even though I'm using the car about 300 miles a month and charging it nightly. Between not buying gas ($3.25 here this week) and the lower bill, I'm about $40 per month ahead.
     
  11. Rich-T

    Rich-T New Member

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    Electricity is $0.28/kWh in the suburbs of NYC, so gas is about half the price per mile compared to electricity
     
  12. Glenn G

    Glenn G Member

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    Most electricity in MA is produced by Natural Gas, about 2/3 I believe. More, as coal plants, such as the one in Salem MA, and nukes in Plymouth MA are shut down/ phased out. Solar and wind provides some capacity,
    but doesn't fill the void.

    There is limited pipe line capacity to furnish a sufficient supply of NG, therefor the gas has to be frozen and shipped on giant tankers to Everett MA (across the harbor from Boston), not cheap.

    There was an attempt to transport NG from Canada to MA, however the residents of neighboring
    VT and NH resisted having an NG pipeline in their back yards, and the last I heard the project was abandoned.
     
  13. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    About 3/4 of the electricity in Florida comes from natural gas, including the plant closest to us. We pay 11.2 cents/kWh right now plus the fixed fees they charge for the privilege of being their customer.
     
  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Now I don't feel so bad paying $0.21/kWh for the electricity. About 80% of Maine's electricity net generation already come from renewable energy resources. And I pay an extra ~$15/mo to support more green source energy. At the source, I am buying 100% renewable energy generated electricity.
     
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  15. Glenn G

    Glenn G Member

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    The cost of living in the south is less than the NE, more unionized, much less available land, other factors. I've found that some towns in greater Boston maintain their own power municipal source to the residents (such as Wakefield MA) and the cost per kwh drops about 3c/ kwh.

    So, you make more $ up north but it cost more to live in the area. Both have their + and -'s , right now the snow thing up here brings on
    the - part :)
     
  16. Luvu

    Luvu Junior Member

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    in San Diego, SDGE rate is 30 cents kwh in winter and around 60cents kwh in summer !!! So, it costs over $4 for 25-30 miles EV driving :( and gas is around $3.5/gallon
     
  17. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    Check to see if they have an EV charging rate like we have in northern California. From Midnight to 3 PM the rate is 11 cents a kWh. From 3 to midnight it's significantly more, closer to 30 cents. I set the car to charge during those off hours. The rate still kills us in the summer, but it's cheaper over all the rest of the year. See post #110
     
  18. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    Yipe! Here in Roseville (near Sacramento), our municipal utility charges us $0.093/KWH for the first 500 KWH and $0.143/KWH thereafter. Summer or winter, no time of day rates here (yet). And they don't turn off the power whenever there is a windstorm, like happens to folks nearby on PG&E.
     
  19. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    They do have some EV-TOU plans, dropping to 9¢/kwh with $16/month basic service fee, or 22¢/kwh without a monthly fee:
    Electric Vehicle Pricing Plans | San Diego Gas & Electric
    EV FAQ | San Diego Gas & Electric

    They had a special credit program at one time, but that is now closed
    Electric Vehicle Climate Credit | San Diego Gas & Electric
     
  20. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Our utility (Duke Energy) is going around installing new meters that feed data continuously to Duke. That will give them the ability to initiate TOU billing. The cool thing, though, is that you can log in to your account and see your energy use by the hour or by the day. They just put in ours this Wednesday. Crazy think is, it doesn't look like the new meter is designed for net metering, so they'll have to replace it again when we get our solar panels on line, hopefully in a few weeks. But it's a great tool right now to see where our big power uses happen. We should have had this a year ago to help calculate what we needed to get for solar panels. :)
    Screen Shot 2021-03-05 at 8.06.27 PM.png
     
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