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Gen 1 HV BATTERY REBUILD WITH 2G CELLS

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by UKCLASSICPRIUS, May 15, 2010.

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  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Brakes!

    There is no drive to the rear brakes. Pull the wheels and check the brakes and the parking brake. I believe the UK versions had disk brakes (or is that disc brakes on your side of the pond?)

    On our North American Prius the parking brake has an adjustment that happens with we roll backwards and brake hard. It 'tightens' the cable taking out some of the parking brake slack. Now I'm wondering about your rear wheels. Could it be that a 'brake' problem might cause it to work in one direction and fail in the other? GOSH, I hope so as that would be a sweet problem and probably relatively easy to diagnose and fix.

    As for the other forum with UK members, try the Yahoo Group, "Prius Technical Stuff." Clive hangs out there and is active as well Stefan, a German NHW11 owner and one of the first to replace modules in a failed traction battery. That group has a searchable message archive that goes back to November 2000.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #101 bwilson4web, Aug 3, 2010
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Late thought, have you put the car in "N" and tried to push it both ways to see if rolls easily?

    Also, do you have a laptop with stereo, audio input? I'm thinking we might start by looking at the resolver signals feeding MG2:

    • driver signal - ~10kHz
    • sine return - ~10 kHz
    • cosine return - ~10 kHz
    If the resolver signals to MG2 are missing when in "R" but there in "D" it would suggest a problem with the ECU.

    We also need to verify when shifted in "R" the central display (combination meter) shows it is in "R". The combination meter shift setting looks to be driven by signals from the HV ECU, not hardwired from the shifter. This would let us confirm the HV ECU believes it has been commanded into "R."

    Bob Wilson
     
    #102 bwilson4web, Aug 4, 2010
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  3. UKCLASSICPRIUS

    UKCLASSICPRIUS Member

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    Hi bob, The car rolls NOT freely atall, BUT I was thinking thats normal when you have a car parked up for around a year... (discs sticky & rusty)

    I will make an extra effort to take Pump up the wheels Fully, As I can note are all below...

    I will check if they are drums or discs...

    I did give it a spin it, before making the post about the juddering....

    & noted the Judder is not there when I push or roll the vehicle...
    (Have I just started leaning towards a transaxle issue?)

    remmeber the car does not really drive in reverse, & the juddering is sudden when driving forward only more then 5mph...

    the car acts like its trying to reverse, it comes up on the dash... & sometimes I even see the display doing the arrow buisiness...

    The gearbox position indicater works fully, the display gives the right messages telling me the car wont charge in neutral etc... etc...
     
    #103 UKCLASSICPRIUS, Aug 4, 2010
  4. UKCLASSICPRIUS

    UKCLASSICPRIUS Member

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    YES I do have a laptop with mic connection... & would not mind experimenting with those signals!

    (BUT to tell you the truth, I have not gone through those HV ecu connections you listed as of yet.. tried a few to the inverter from the ecu & there was continuity there, BUT felt the need to locate all the Wiring harness connections & check properly, As I was not enjoying the guess work..)

    BUT I am hoping to have the sub codes in my hand by then..

    *Tryed a scanner that my mate bought around from a garage he's working in, BUT he forgot the right cartridge, Apparantly SO it was not Syncing with the prius, OR the merc... BUT it Looked proper heavy duty & that made it look promising..

    (cant remmembr what the name of it was either...)
     
    #104 UKCLASSICPRIUS, Aug 4, 2010
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    About the scanner, the car uses ISO-9141 which identifies the K and L lines on the OBD connector, voltages and timing. If you use the CANbus mode, the CAN-lo signal maps to one of the Ts/Tc signals and this can induce a false, brake system error code. Just a 'heads up' on the scanner.

    Interesting thought, the transaxle might be part of the problem. We've seen that before. In the past, a stator winding in MG2 will short out. This causes a 'rumbling' that is speed related and happens whether the car is in "D" or in "N". The shorted windings couple with the permanent magnet rotor and this causes the speed related rumble and more heat to compete the short. This would be a bad thing as replacing a transaxle is pretty involved (not the thing to do at a curb) although folks have done it with reasonable success. For example, check the postings by 'orange4boy' and 'tomfreed'.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #105 bwilson4web, Aug 4, 2010
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  6. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    Are you absolutely certain that the vibration is coming from the rear wheels? If it's coming from the front wheels, you may have a faulty motor.

    This is not a diagnosis; other issues could be the source of that vibration, as well.
     
    #106 jk450, Aug 4, 2010
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  7. UKCLASSICPRIUS

    UKCLASSICPRIUS Member

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    Pretty sure the vibration / Juddering is coming from the front wheels, As when I push its not binding, BUT when I manouver using the Ignition & accelerator it is...

    May I say its So fatherless Trying to find parts for a classic here...

    I am SULKING!
     
    #107 UKCLASSICPRIUS, Aug 4, 2010
  8. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    At present, the symptoms do not suggest a resolver or shift control issue.
     
    #108 jk450, Aug 4, 2010
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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You might try posting questions in the YahooGroups that have more international posters:

    "Prius Technical Stuff"
    "Prius-Europe" - been pretty quiet recently

    The "Prius Technical Stuff" has had posters from the UK, Ireland, Scotland, Germany, Greece and Jordan (Ok, not really Europe but . . .) There is also an NHW10, the earlier generation, but other than pointers to parts resources, I'm not sure they can help that much.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #109 bwilson4web, Aug 4, 2010
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  10. UKCLASSICPRIUS

    UKCLASSICPRIUS Member

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    One of the things I need to do, BUT it just shows you HOW comfortable I am here, LOL!
     
    #110 UKCLASSICPRIUS, Aug 4, 2010
  11. UKCLASSICPRIUS

    UKCLASSICPRIUS Member

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    I know its been a long time GUYS, BUT theres NOT much I have been upto with the prius...

    The car ran out of tax, So I gave up & handed it into toyota a dealer, for a read out for the sub codes & a Proper Diagnosis...

    Lets see what happens...

    Started a new job, & have no daylight hours to look at anything...

    NOT even had a chance to register with any Euro forums either I am afraid...

    NOT enough hours in a day shall I say...



    Started a NE
     
    #111 UKCLASSICPRIUS, Sep 13, 2010
  12. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    Hopefully you'll get some real progress on it now - good luck!
     
    #112 Flaninacupboard, Sep 13, 2010
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  13. UKCLASSICPRIUS

    UKCLASSICPRIUS Member

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    Hey everyone, Hows it going?

    My prius has been fixed quite a whilst now, Just been busy so could not even let you know what the score was & is upto date....


    Basically VERY upset with toyota, they went on like they never even know what sub codes were...

    they had the car for over a month, & when we went to collect it the aux battery was dead...

    when we handed it in it was still in driving condition...

    THEY said its the battery that needs replacing, full stop.....

    When I told them it had been serviced, they were not happy atall

    They refused to talk about anything else...

    & when ever I tried to talk to them about anything else, They would say we are not interested in the prius or fixing it because its a risk for thier employe's if they work on a car that has already been worked on...

    They gave me a slip with some error codes that I already had previously...


    SO me & my mechanic took a HARSH decision to open the gearbox & check the windings, UPON taking it apart it never take us long to see BURNT windings on a part of the gearbox...

    SO I sourced an nhw10 gearbox to find that there was alot of difference in windings & conections, So never bother taking the risk, gave that back..

    & then found a PROPER nhw11 gearbox that came with 3 months warranty..

    As soon as we fitted it all up, filled it up with relevent fluids (That toyota never want to tell us the name of, or even sell us) it started driving as we would have expected to, everything was spot on, & no warning lights on the dash...

    & that was the end of the prius headache...


    Really really upset with toyota pinewood Brixton hill branch in London uk....

    Other then that it was a very pleasant project that has teached me alot & YES I would do it again its that easy...

    Infact I have had someone else's 2003 nhw11 NON starting prius fixed, By supplying & fitting my used battery cells into thier car with a gaurantee of 6 months, they were very happy when I sorted out thier car in a jiffy...

    I wish it could have been the same with mine to start of with...

    SO prius chatters the transaxal was to blame all along, DONT ever think it could be a faulty battery, the worst case scenario is a tranny & a battery...

    May I thank you all individually, who helped shed light on this topic, I owe you one, you know who you are, all your posts were very precious to me...

    & YES I am willing to help anyone else in the UK London with anything I can, Just give me a shout... (I found this a problem there was no one for me to speak to locally, everyones abroad or in the states..)
     
    #113 UKCLASSICPRIUS, Feb 19, 2011
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  14. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    Congratulations on your well-deserved success!
     
    #114 jk450, Feb 22, 2011
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