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Gen 3 Known Brake Problem - outside of the ZJB program terms

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by rushj, Aug 19, 2022.

  1. rushj

    rushj Junior Member

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    Hi everybody,

    I've read the many threads on the brake pump issue and Customer Support Program ZJB that is meant to address the issue.

    Regrettably, my Prius is a 2011 and has more than 150k miles (162k). In hindsight, the pump started running more often about nine months ago, but I didn't give it much thought. It now runs every 15-20 seconds whether I'm braking or not. It has not failed yet and I have seen no warning lights, but from what I've read, the frequency of pump activity I'm hearing now is a sign of imminent failure. It wasn't until the run intervals got short that I started searching here and learned about the known problem.

    I haven't seen any recent information on this issue, so I'm wondering if anyone in a situation like mine has had any luck "guilting" Toyota into covering the repair under ZJB since it's a known problem and our pumps just happen to be failing a bit more slowly than the terms of their program?

    Secondly, because this repair was handled by Toyota, I haven't found much information on the feasibility of going DIY with this, assuming that Toyota will tell me to go pound sand regarding ZJB coverage.

    Thanks for any information you might be able to share.
     
  2. rushj

    rushj Junior Member

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    I just realized I probably put this in the wrong subthread. Should have been maintenance. Please move as desired.
     
  3. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If you are out of warranty, Toyota will tell you to go pound sand. Once they offer an extended warranty coverage campaign, they no longer do any good will repairs for the same item. Out of pocket cost for parts is about $1500, plus labor
     
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  4. nicoj36

    nicoj36 Active Member

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    Try this reset and see if it lessens it.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    For me in western Canada, through Amayama, which usually is quite competitive on cost:

    BRAKE BOOSTER ASSY, W/MASTER CYLINDER (upper unit)
    Part no: 47050-47300*
    Summary page: Brake master cylinder for Toyota Prius XW30, 3 generation, restyling 12.2011 - 11.2015 - Toyota Car and Auto Spare Parts - Genuine Online Car Parts Catalogue - Amayama
    Part page: Buy Genuine Toyota 4705047300 (47050-47300) Brake Booster Assy, W/master Cylinder for Toyota Prius. Prices, fast shipping, photos, weight - Amayama
    Cost for me, in CDN funds: $1995.68 plus $77.89 shipping

    PUMP ASSY, BRAKE BOOSTER (lower unit, body resembles 2 side-by-side beer cans)
    Part no: 47070-47060
    Summary page: Brake tube & clamp for Toyota Prius XW30, 3 generation, restyling 12.2011 - 11.2015 - Toyota Car and Auto Spare Parts - Genuine Online Car Parts Catalogue - Amayama
    Part page: Buy Genuine Toyota 4707047060 (47070-47060) Pump Assy, Brake Booster. Prices, fast shipping, photos, weight - Amayama
    Cost for me, in CDN funds: $836.98 plus $59.55 shipping

    Tally:

    upload_2022-8-20_5-21-56.png

    The first (upper) unit is the expensive one; what are the odds it's NOT the problem, can be left alone?

    * There are a SLEW of part numbers for this item. I picked the last in the list, with the highest number, and also among the cheaper ones. Hopefully compatible.
     
    #5 Mendel Leisk, Aug 20, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2022
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  6. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    The one that goes bad in the Gen 2 is the thing that looks like beer cans or a beer can standing up and a beer can laying down or however you look at it. The master cylinder looks like a regular master cylinder attached directly to the firewall with no normal round booster that's just the thing that pumps the fluid to the pump and the accumulator I believe I would think like most master cylinders on most of my Corollas they rarely go bad and then on the Corolla I don't own one with the ABS and the pumps like we have on the Prius thank goodness I guess.
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yeah, this is a Gen 3 thread. In Gen 3, the actuator is combined with the booster and master cylinder, and the pump/accumulator (beer cans) is separate.

    [​IMG]

    In Gen 2, the actuator is combined with the pump/accumulator (beer cans are right on it), there's no booster, and the master cylinder is separate.

    vvv Gen 2 Gen 2 Gen 2 vvv
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    ^^^ Gen 2 Gen 2 Gen 2 ^^^

    Gen 1 was the one with one beer can standing up and one laying down. In Gen 1 the pump/accumulator, the actuator, and the master cylinder were all separate things, and the master cylinder included a booster.

    vvv Gen 1 Gen 1 Gen 1 vvv
    [​IMG]
    ^^^ Gen 1 Gen 1 Gen 1 ^^^
     
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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Is it usually the beer cans failing, the other bit ok? That would save some bucks.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    In a Gen 3, if the pump ends up cycling repeatedly even when you are not using the brake, that tends to indicate an internal fluid leak, maybe through a sticky valve. It's worth pinning down which unit the leak is in, for each individual case before spending money, but the majority of the valves are to be found in the master cylinder/booster/actuator assembly (the one on the top in the picture above).
     
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  10. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I believe to get to the bottom unit, the top unit has to come off. So if both comes off, you might just bite the bullet and replace them both at the same time.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah except that's one expensive bullet (~$1600 USD delivered). :(
     
  12. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I was looking this part up for 2010, it shows 2 parts

    brake master cylinder 47050-47140 - around $600 and master cylinder assemby 47050-47150 also around $600

    Can't pull up 47050-47300 that you listed
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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  14. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    From what I can gather, both the top and bottom unit are around $600 each on discounted Toyota Websites. Expensive units to replace but if you plan to keep your car, you should buy them when you can. I'm waiting for the day Toyota decides not to offer these OEM part and then you'll be left with remanufactured options.

    Better yet, replace yours before it fails and you can sell the used parts for a good chunk of change to lessen your overall cost of the eventual failure of this part
     
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  15. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    It is quite feasible if you have access to the repair manual. You will need Techstream once the installation is complete to bleed the brakes and a perform a couple of other initialization procedures.

    The procedure also calls for flashing the ABS assembly with new firmware, which some users (justifiably) do not trust their mini-VCI cables with. However, if you buy your parts new, the assembly will come factory-flashed with the latest firmware so you can skip that step entirely and avoid buying an expensive cable.
     
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  16. rushj

    rushj Junior Member

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    Nothing changed, but thanks for the suggestion
     
  17. rushj

    rushj Junior Member

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    Exactly, and with 160k+ miles I don't want to go any further down this rabbit hole than I need to.
     
  18. rushj

    rushj Junior Member

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    I'm confused. The part numbers you mentioned don't appear anywhere in the list shown in the Toyota CSP Bulletin for the ZJB program. I just see the following where I have circled the ones that would apply to me. Yet still, the ones you mentioned are shown as being compatible for my car too on the Toyota website. Hmm.....

    upload_2022-8-20_15-47-44.png
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If I remember right, the original repair-manual procedure for replacing the bottom unit was to work from below, after removing the suspension/steering subframe.

    But they had a recall on some 2010s, where they looked at the prospect of doing that 80,000 times, and came up with a way of replacing that unit from the top, and I think without removing the actuator.

    It involved some very one-off special tools. There's a thread here somewhere with a 3D-printer file that somebody designed for one of the tools.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Here's the pdf for the workaround:
     

    Attached Files:

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