Gen 5 Prius (possible in 2021) will we possibly see 60mpg?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by TNeil, May 12, 2019.

  1. TNeil

    TNeil Junior Member

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    so it looks like the Prius is slated for a total redesign based on the intervals of redesigns.. does anyone here think Toyota will be able to crack 60mpg?
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Should be able to. 56mpg on the Eco. It’ll be hard but they did improve 10% over the Gen 3’s 50mpg. It’ll require the use of some exotic material for weight savings. And I suppose continued refinement of engine and hybrid electronics.
     
  3. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I would expect at least 2023, I am not sure all Prius won't be AWD and all FWD are Primes.
     
  4. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Probably - 3.4 l/100km Gen4; 3.9 l/100km Gen 3; 4.4 l/100 Gen 2.

    Gen 5? 3.0l/100?

    How - I guess by massaging all the aspects which allow PRIUS to be on top of that game?
    • Improvements in Petrol Engines has been happening with all manufacturers - none have given up on Petrol (or Diesel) engines?
    • Improvements in the MotorGenerators as well as the battery technology?
    • Improvements in aerodymamics?
    • weight reductions?
    • tyre technology?
     
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  5. Georgina Rudkus

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    By 2023, I'll be driving a BEV as a daily driver with no ICE.
     
  6. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Can't see them here by then - not for a daily driver. We're at the stage USA was before TESLA Model S came out.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    I have a few hopes for the next gen, besides chasing every higher mpg bragging rights, but doubt they're gonna happen.
     
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  8. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Like what?

    A proper hand-brake would be a great start.
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    Ah, I better not get into it. Luddite stuff mostly, and it's pie in the sky these days.
     
  10. Seamaster

    Seamaster Member

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    I wonder if we've reached peak "traditional" Prius, given the momentum building now for PHEVs (and, indeed, true EVs)?

    Why would Toyota invest more R&D spend to shave a few more MPG off a non-PHEV Prius when they can presumably make much greater gains deploying their engineering resource in refining the PHEV ones?

    Much as I would like to see the traditional Prius break the 100mpg (imperial) barrier to which they are now tantalisingly close, my prediction is that any ballyhoo accompanying the launch of the next generation Prius, if there is one, will be for the gains made by the Prime/PIP.
     
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  11. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Not sure - Hybrid has really only just started to make an impact in Australia - and 3rd world hasn't even got there yet. From just peripheral sales, they're selling almost 50% of Camrys as Hybrid and 33% of Corollas - and expecting maybe 50+% of RAV4s as Hybrids. And that shift has just started in the last 12 mths. About 12 yrs behind California.
     
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    For places like UAE, India, Pakistan and Australia, hybrids are really just arriving or just becoming more mainstream. They’re at the equivalent of the 2004 Prius or maybe 2010 Prius in the US in terms of acceptance.

    And it’s just launched in Brazil with an ethanol option.

    Yes in North America, it’ll be the PHV but for a lot of the world, hybrids still make sense.
     
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  13. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    And most of Africa and South America? - Eastern Europe, some of Asia I imagine. Not sure of Antarctica:cautious:.
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    Constantly striving to improve mpg (or liters per 100 kilometers, up here), becomes an exercise in chasing crumbs. Consider coming from a typical CUV, burning 10 liters per 100 kms (24 mpg (US)), acquiring a 3rd gen Prius, roughly 5 liter/100 km (47 mpg). That's a BIG savings. Then go to a 4th gen Prius, at maybe 4 liter/100km. Impressive, but not much more savings, you've already lopped so much off the bill. Possible 3.5 liter/100km with 5th gen: nickels and dimes.

    upload_2019-5-13_6-32-31.png

    I'd rather they turned their attention back to the utility and ergonomics of the car, which seems to be adrift..

    Addendum: I just threw out 1000 km monthly usage as an example. Our case is roughly half that, and the savings accordingly twice as trivial:

    upload_2019-5-13_9-42-14.png
     
    #14 Mendel Leisk, May 13, 2019
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    True. But there are still a lot of 10L/100km vehicles out there. So if they upgraded to 3.5L/100km instead of 5L/100km, that’s still a huge advantage. Plus, the better the mileage, the more leeway there is for heavy footers. So that 3.5L/100km May bend up being 4.5-5 instead 10-12L/100km.
     
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  16. BruceInOKC

    BruceInOKC Member

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    Toyota put in tremendous effort to get 10% improvement in the Gen 4, so as far as current hybrid technology goes, I think the law of diminishing returns has already kicked in. Significant improvements would require new technology.
     
  17. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Who knows.

    Diesel - probably not, but Mazda's got a petrol powered diesel coming soon?

    Turbo or supercharger, and a smaller engine. Other makers have done this. Eg FORD FOCUS today is a 3 cylinder 1.5 litre 134kw - last year was 4 cyl 1.5litre 132kw - 5 yrs ago 4cyl 2litre 125kw. VW GOLF was 2litre for base models, but now 1.4litre.

    Borrow some of Mazda's other SkyActive or VW's twin-charge (unreliable!!) technology.

    I'd not be surprised if they could have more efficient battery tech by then, or better battery cooling.

    More efficient A/C and possibly reverse-cycle heating for places which use heaters.

    More lightweight materials - Carbon fibre might be more affordable.
     
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  18. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    TOYOTA is still the leader with HYBRID technology which is far more relevant than EVs in most of the world.

    Bear in mind that 67% of the developing world still goes without household electricity - buying an EV in those vast parts of our world won’t happen for possibly decades. But - an efficient HYBRID would be a god-send for them.
     
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  19. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I think it's going to be something other than a power split device with two MGs and an engine. I don't know what it will be, but I think that's the part they're ready to replace.
     
  20. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Yes, I did wonder about that - but I think the power-split device is still a very efficient way of doing it. More efficiency with different MGs? Or, as I said above, a re-think of the ICE.

    A larger hybrid battery - even ½ as big again, or even double the size (capacity), might allow a smaller, more efficient ICE? I'd be surprised if smaller batteries won't be available by then - keep the physical size but with more capacity.

    Something else I thought about ... but it's probably further away than Gen 5, is that Autonomous cars are able to be "controlled" more efficiently than the typical right foot.
     
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