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Gen 5 Prius Prime will charge almost twice slower than Gen 4 Prius Prime

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Gokhan, Mar 5, 2023.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Apple was an example. Make it Samsung or Motorola if you like. It does not matter.

    The unit for time is seconds or hours. (Alternatively, the unit for rate—the rate that measures how fast something happens is—1/time.) It is not 1/kilowatts. End of story.

    My original post was not about what mattered to whom. It gave the charging times (or charging rates) for Gen 4 and Gen 5.
     
  2. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    That is exactly what some people are having difficulty with here.
     
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The tread title is poor english. 'Twice slower' impli
    watt vs amp?

    The English of your title is clunky. That was the issue. When people are talking about the time something takes, they won't say twice slower, they'll say twice as long, because in lay conversation time is handled in lengths and periods. Any discussion of time's speed, slower or faster, is about the person's perception of time flow.

    Your phrasing opened up other interpretations and snarky posts.
     
  4. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I will call you out on that again. Poor English? Show me where in the literature fast charging is called "short charging" and slow charging is called "long charging." ;)

    Again, the time (in this case the time to charge from 0% to 100% SOC) and rate (in this case the C rate) are simply inverses of each other. You can use either to describe the charging performance of a cell. For example, 5-hour charging is referred to as C/5 charging, which would be slow charging. 1/2-hour charging is referred to as 2C charging, which would be fast charging—10 times as fast as the former in this case.
     
    #44 Gokhan, Mar 12, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
  5. Andy2

    Andy2 Member

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    What is the estimate for traction battery cycles and miles on the Gen 4 Prime?
     
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  6. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I don't think it is known for Gen 4. However, some reported PHEV battery degradation and even failure. The Gen 5 PHEV battery uses more advanced cells with a longer cycle life. The higher battery capacity and slower charging will virtually result in the Gen 5 Prius Prime PHEV battery lasting for 20 years and 400,000 miles if not more.
     
  7. Andy2

    Andy2 Member

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    Thank you!
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    My 2012 Prius PHV that I sold to a friend almost 6 years ago is still running just fine. Meanwhile, my almost 6 year old Prius Prime that replaced it is still running just fine, without any hint of degradation.

    Keep in mind that some of the slower approach is simply a matter of encouraging off-peak recharges and building a habit of plugging in every night. It's a win for balancing demand and reducing electricity cost, while at the same time setting the stage for a BEV later.
     
  9. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

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    Show me where in the literature the term "almost twice slower than" is used to specify a characteristic of a battery without providing the specifications of both batteries. Only this thread comes up on Google search for the term "almost twice slower than".

    Let me fix that headline for you. It would be useful if stated as follows; "The default setting of the Gen 5 Prius Prime charger is configured to recharge the traction battery at 3.5 kW".

    Or even better, try this "3.5 kW charger in Gen 5 Prius Prime recharges 14.56 kWh battery in 4 hours from a Level 2 ESVE plugged into a household 240V, 20 Amp circuit."

    Or even better yet... you could have said this: "Gen 5 Prius Prime charges a battery that is twice the capacity of the Gen 4 traction battery in a little less than twice the time."

    And, of course, it might have made it clear that unlike a BEV, there is very little (if any) need for high voltage fast DC charging. This would have been a good thread title, copied from post #46 "The higher battery capacity and slower charging will virtually result in the Gen 5 Prius Prime PHEV battery lasting for 20 years and 400,000 miles if not more."
     
  10. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I would modify the title as you requested, but I believe there is a character limit. ;)

    I never mentioned DC charging.

    Yes, I did post the detailed Gen 4 and Gen 5 specs in my original post, including the power, amperage, and time for Level 1 and Level 2 charging, which was the main purpose of the post.
     
  11. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    Time to unwatch this thread.
     
  12. Alfred77L8

    Alfred77L8 New Member

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    First, the battery construction was upgraded, and fast charging technology was added
     
  13. Vneck

    Vneck New Member

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    I am more worried about the pricing than the charging time. If toyota sale it 10k over the hev, no one buy it, and no one cares about charging time anymore.
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed. they are pricing gen 5 into luxury territory. guaranteed to keep sales low.
    new toyota strategy?
     
  15. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    How would you avoid the Osborne Effect ?

    Making a product that truly shines, but results in a price at the high-end of mainstream, is an approach control. For those paying attention, that was the "test the waters" effort we got from RAV4 Prime... a foreshadow of what was likely to come.

    Think about what's next. As Toyota pursues other PHEV offerings... Crown, CH-R and Harrier/Venza... we will see Prius follow the course here it is already on in Europe. Becoming an PHEV only at a premium price, allows the others to retain whatever market they established in the meantime.

    This about that delicate balance for transition to BEV. Don't forget that Toyota will have at least 3 models of bZ intermixed within the market at the same time. Think about financial well-being in the next few years, where profit will come from for legacy automakers. What appears to be "keep sales low" strategy is far more likely to be a quiet setting of the stage to get through the remainder of the decade while retaining a reputation for quality & reliability.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    What Osborne Effect? These are cars, not computers or phones. The first year issues effect in the car industry tempers people holding off on waiting for the new model. People didn't stop buying ICE models when hybrids were announced. The Osborne Effect also isn't an issue if all the old product are already sold. Besides, the effect is managed by new product announcement timing. When did Toyota announce the gen5?

    The Prius' higher pricing is because of market conditions, and to avoid cannibalizing Corolla hybrid sales. Toyota is also trying to expand the car's customer base. Charging more for something can make it more desirable.

    Europe has its own conditions. As an import, the Prius had an 10% price increase. With the choice of EU made Corollas that were hybrid only in many markets there, the Prius wasn't going to sell enough to cover the cost of bringing it to market. The PHV is there because of limited plug in options from Toyota. Its price premium includes that tariff.
     
  17. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    LOL Hardly. All cars are more expensive these days, especially the used ones.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    idk man, prius hybrid only starts $1,000. less than camry hybrid.
    2022 prius prime started at 28,800. what will 23 start at?
     
  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    2023 Camry is an outdated car: no TSS 3.0, no BSM, no cross-traffic alert, no parking sensors, etc. You get all these standard on the 2023 Prius LE. I wouldn't even consider a new Toyota missing any of the features I listed. You are throwing your money away if you are buying a car that does not have all the newest safety features.

    Starting MSRP for the 2023 Prius LE is $28,355 plus $1,095 processing/handling/delivery fee by Toyota Logistics Services, Inc.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    2023 honda accord hybrid starts at $27,300.