Gen 5 Prius Prime will charge almost twice slower than Gen 4 Prius Prime

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Gokhan, Mar 5, 2023.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    No, it does not. The lowest MSRP is $32,990 with the delivery fee.

    Moreover, it misses the standard safety features on the 2023 Prius LE like BSM, RCTA, parking sensors, LTA, LCA, curve sensing, proactive driving, etc.

    Puriusu (the Japanese pronunciation of Prius) is a lot more car for your money. Is the pronunciation right, @Salamander_King?
     
    #61 Gokhan, Mar 18, 2023 at 6:01 PM
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023 at 6:10 PM
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeah, deceiving honda website. when you click on honda accord hybrid, it shows 27,300 with asterisk.

    that's non hybrid
     
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Accord is a full size sedan; it's bigger than the Avalon.
    The new Prius PHV starts at 4.6 million yen, which is around $35k. That might include a VAT, but then there is shipping in getting it to the US, and currency differences. Let's look at the Prius. It is 2.75 million yen. Direct conversion is under $21k. It starts at $27,450 in the US.

    A starting price for the new Prime of $35k would likely be the lowest possible.
     
  4. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    No, this is not correct.

    They only offer the highest Prius PHEV trim (Prius Z PHEV) in Japan. That is why it is so expensive.

    Moreover, they offer a 1.8-L 2023 Prius U HEV there. The cheapest 2.0-L 2023 Prius G HEV in Japan is said on their website to be $24,300 including tax. To bring them here, you need to pay for the Ro–Ro and probably also some tariffs.

    In the US, MSRP for 2023 Prius Prime SE plus delivery fee is $30,440.
     
    #64 Gokhan, Mar 18, 2023 at 10:48 PM
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023 at 10:58 PM
  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    PURIUSU would be the Roma-ji spelling of the Prius. But, pronunciation is more like "pliəs" since no Japanese make the English "r" sound.

    To me, the second pronunciation for the Japanese on this page is often heard pronunciation, but since the word Prius has no Japanese etymology, there are several variations that are all acceptable.
    Toyota Prius pronunciation: How to pronounce Toyota Prius in English, Japanese, Italian, French
     
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  6. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    This girl pronounces it as "Puriusu."



    This guy pronounces it as "Puriusu" as well.



    Japanese Prius (プリウス) videos
     
  7. Hammersmith

    Hammersmith Active Member

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    Where are you getting this from? Is this your estimation? If you're claiming this is going to be the US official price, what's your source? Because I haven't heard of Toyota USA releasing that info yet.

    BTW, a $30,440 price tag for a 2023 SE would only be $575 more than a 2022 Prius Prime LE base price. That doesn't seem very realistic.

    Kirk Kreifels is predicting:
    SE $36,800
    XSE $41,300
    XSE+ $46,400

    I'm a little more optimistic and predicting:
    SE $35,400
    XSE $38,900
    XSE+ $42,400

    (all prices rounded to hundreds and including destination fees)
     
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  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    If you can hear the sound of a Japanese saying "ra ri ru re ro" with English "R" sound, then you are more like a native Japanese. For them, there is no difference in the sound ra-la, ri-li, ru-lu, re-le, ro-lo. In Japanese, there are neither R or L sounds of the English phonetic R and L. The Japanese sound is more of a cross between the English R and L. But I think the tapping sound in Japanese "R" with the tip of the tongue touching the top front of the palate when pronouncing is closer to the English L sound than the rolled tongue of the English R.

    Here is a vocal lesson you can listen.
     
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  9. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Very interesting, thanks!

    I hear it as an "R" in the middle of a word but as an "L" at the beginning of a word.
     
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Here is an even better Youtube video explaining the difference between English R and Japanese R. RI is the letter in PURIUSU.
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Second the question on where you heard this.

    That would be a smaller difference between the 2023 hybrid and PHEV that there was in the 2022 models.

    The top trim Prius AWD in Japan is around $30k. If comparable to the US Limited, it's about a $5000 increase to import here will all the considerations.
     
  12. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    My estimate, yes, and I see I was off by about $1,000 or so.

    Kirk Kreifels estimates are crazy. :eek:

    Prius Z PHEV (XSE Premium in the US) is $34,900 in Japan. Prius G HEV is $24,300 there and $28,545 here with delivery fee, which is about a $4,000 difference for the Ro–Ro and tariff. That would make the XSE Premium about $39,000 including the delivery fee in the US.

    Then, Prius Prime SE should be under $32,000.

    Prius LE has increased by 4.3%. If we use that math, Prius Prime SE would be $31,100 including delivery fee. Perhaps it will be a little higher due to the larger battery etc., but it should be under $32,000. So, I would say $31,000–32,000 for Prius Prime SE including delivery fee.

    2022 Prius vs. 2023 Prius price comparison | PriusChat
     
  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I don't think this is quite correct because I think the pronunciation varies between R and L sounds depending on the location of the sound within the word and the other sounds preceding or succeeding it. It seems to be pronounced (usually) as L at the beginning of the word but (usually) as R in the middle of the world, although this is varying from word to word. So, it is not that Japanese cannot pronounce R or L, but it is more like they can only pronounce one or the other (but not both) depending on the positioning of the sound with respect to other sounds in words.
     
  14. Hammersmith

    Hammersmith Active Member

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    I think you're going to be disappointed. I think your major flaw is comparing the Japanese G grade to the US LE trim instead of the XLE. Kreifel makes a similar mistake the other way by comparing the Japanese PHEV Z grade to the Prime XSE instead of the XSE+. In your case, I think you're so focused on the difference in engines that you don't see that the Japanese X grade(fleet sales) is actually the proper comparison for the LE.

    If nothing else, why aren't you starting by comparing the FWD & AWD Z-grade HEVs to the FWD & AWD Limiteds since those are apples to apples and then working from there? You'd see that the FWD is a $7500 markup and the AWD is a $7200 markup.


    My method:

    I looked at the 6 non-subscription Japanese Prius HEV trims(X,G,Z plus FWD/AWD) and compared those to the six US trims(LE,XLE,LTD plus FWD/AWD). I converted the Japanese prices from yen to USD and compared them to the US prices including destination fees. I found a pretty consistent pattern of a $7500 markup +/- $200. So we take the PHEV Z price of 4.6M yen, convert to $34,900, and add $7500 to get us roughly $42,400 for the XSE+.

    Then I looked at the price differences between the three US grades(LE/XLE/LTD) and there's roughly a $3,500 difference between each grade. So $35,400 for the SE and $38,900 for the XSE.



    I guess we'll see who's closer to correct in a few weeks whenever Toyota USA finally decides to release their prices.
     
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  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    We will see. My estimation is actually based on a 4.3% price increase over the previous generation as it happened with the Prius HEV, plus perhaps another $500–750 or so for the larger battery. This puts it at no more than about $31,500 with delivery fee. We might see a small factory rebate ($500–1,000) on the Prius Prime PHEV as well. I don't see why people would pay $6,900 more for the PHEV ($35,400) than for the HEV ($28,500) as you estimated. The battery only adds about $1,300 ($100 per kWh), and it is almost the same car as the HEV otherwise. So, you are paying $1,300 extra for the battery and $1,700 extra for the charger and some Prius Prime extras and the price at $31,500 is $3,000 more than for the HEV. At $34,900, it would be a BEV with a ~ 50-kWh battery like Tesla Model 3.
     
  16. Hammersmith

    Hammersmith Active Member

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    Dammit. All that number crunching I just did pretty much confirms for me to not wait for a Prime; the cost differential is just going to make it not worth it. My out the door prices are looking something like this:
    FWD: $41,200 (+$7300 to get Prime)
    AWD: $42,700 (+$5800 to get Prime)
    Prime: $48,500
    (That's all fees, options, desired accessories, and taxes, but no unwanted accessories or dealer markups. Yes, I want pretty much everything on the car and have reasons for it.)

    I hope I'm wrong with my estimates and the differential gets below $4k, but that hope is at almost zero. Basically $6k or $7.5k is way too much to pay for 25 extra horsepower and some small gas savings that won't mean much in my climate(5 months of the average daily high temp being below 40F). Guess I just need to decide between FWD and AWD and give up on my Prime hopes. <sigh>
     
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  17. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I wouldn't infer much from the pricing system in Japan. For example, the PHEV is not compatible with KINTO, and that could be the reason for some of the added price premium. I don't see any reason for a 36-mile-range PHEV to cost $7,000 more than the HEV, as they are practically the same car. $3,000 more sounds reasonable. $7,000 more would make it a 300-mile-range BEV, which it isn't.
     
  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I think your point is valid in some instances but not universally applicable. Try to have a Japanese native speaker read the word スプリング("supuringu" in Roma-ji). Most will pronounce it as if it is spelled "spling". Similarly, the Japanese word "フリー” (furī) would mean both free and flea and is pronounced exactly the same as in the case of freelance フリーランス(furīransu) and flea marketフリーマーケット(furīmāketto) both of which are often used Japanse words nowadays.

    While the English alphabet R and L can be used in a word and pronounced differently depending on the word containing them, the Japanese has no alphabet that is equal to R or L. The letter リ which is written in Roma-ji as "ri" is a single letter and single syllable and has only one way to pronounce it no matter where this letter is located within a word.

    English speakers would pronounce the word Prius in two syllables Pri-us, while Japanese speakers would pronounce プリウス(puriusu) in 4 syllables pu/ri/u/su. The second letter リ(ri )is pronounced the same way whether it is in the middle of a word or in front of the word. But again, since this word has no Japanese etymology, many people change the way it is pronounced. And that is completely acceptable. Have you ever heard how a native Japanese speaker pronounces the Corolla or カローラ(karōra)? You quickly realize that the English speakers have been pronouncing this car name totally wrong. LOL
     
    #78 Salamander_King, Mar 19, 2023 at 8:41 AM
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023 at 8:46 AM
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  19. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    @Salamander_King @Gokhan @Trollbait - kindly take your personal discussions offline. I've just lost 15 minutes I won't get back reading your recent posts that have nothing to do with the OP.

    Screenshot 2022-11-12 133007.png
     
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  20. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Sorry to have you waste your time. But I must say that you can simply unfollow the thread or use ignore function if you don't want to read others chatting on off-topic subjects. Topic diversion is a very common thing on PC, and I have learned that it is largely allowed here, especially in the case of OP-initiated diversion. Please report the case to the moderator and let him take care of it. I am fine with all of my off-topic comments being removed from the thread. But, if the topic diversion and casual chatting are going to be disallowed on PC, then I will probably leave this forum since I no longer own Prius.
     
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