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Gen 5 Prius/Prius Prime: poor fuel economy, poor choice of colors, poor choice of packages/options

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Gokhan, Dec 18, 2022.

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  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    The newly discounted Tesla Model 3 is $20,000 more than 2023 Prius Prime SE after tax and rebates. Even if I qualified for the full federal tax credit of $7,500, which is apparently expiring in March, it's still a lot higher.

    I then would have to deal with the reliability issues and quirks such as lack of physical controls. There was one stalled Tesla in the carpool lane the other day. Stalling seems to plague Teslas.
     
    #201 Gokhan, Jan 15, 2023
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    How do you figure $20k more? Is your 2023 PP price $26k?

    M3 is $44k + destination + tax
     
    #202 Salamander_King, Jan 15, 2023
  3. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    LOL couldn't resist
     
    #203 vvillovv, Jan 15, 2023
  4. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I believe you see what you expect.
    I have not experienced, nor have I heard from anyone I know, of a stalling issue.
    I am sure it has happened, but I expect “plague” is not an accurate way to describe the frequency.
     
    #204 Zythryn, Jan 15, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i once saw a broken down toyota, but it probably wasn't toyotas fault
     
    #205 bisco, Jan 15, 2023
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  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    2023 Prius LE starts at $27,450.
    The Model 3 RWD at $44,990.
    Where are you buying your 2023 Prius Prime SE that it costs less than a 2017 Prius Prime base trim when new?

    The 2022 Prime started at $3700 higher than the 2022 Prius. With equivalent features, maybe that difference is reduced to half. With a bigger battery in the 2023 Prime, $2000 more than the Prius is best case.

    Toyota Recalls 752,000 Prius And Prius V Models That May Stall While Driving - The Fast Lane Car
     
    #206 Trollbait, Jan 15, 2023
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Whew, I just escaped with the 2012
     
    #207 bisco, Jan 15, 2023
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    − $500 the usual Toyota dealer rebate for Prius Prime − $295 lower destination fee + $1,500 paint (I won't drive a white car—white belongs to bride gowns) + $350 charging cable + 10.25% sales tax + $1,000 California CVRP rebate (Tesla not qualified because too expensive)

    Tesla Model 3 newly discounted price = $47,480 + 10.25% tax = $52,345
    2023 Toyota Prius Prime SE = $31,149 − $500 + 10.25% tax − $1,000 = $32,791

    difference = $19,554
     
    #208 Gokhan, Jan 15, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
    daisy555 and Salamander_King like this.
  9. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I used the same 4.3% prices increase as for the Prius, but if the increase for Prius Prime is more due to the PHEV battery going up in size, it could be about $1,000 more ($152 per kWh + Toyota profit; 13.6 kWh vs. 8.8 kWh).

    It is interesting that the EV battery costs have recently been going up, making EVs less affordable:

    2019: $161
    2020: $140
    2021: $132
    2022: $151
    2002: $152 (expected, could be higher)

    Li-ion battery-pack prices rise for first time to $151/kWh | EV Markets Reports
     
    #209 Gokhan, Jan 15, 2023
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    OK.

    2023 Toyota Prius Prime SE = $32,791

    This figure is probably about what 2023 PP would cost me too then. Less on tax but less on state rebate for me, so the final cost is close.

    That is already more than what I paid for the 2022 Escape PHEV which is serving the roles of two vehicles for us now.

    If I get a second car, I will never pay extra for color or extra features I don't need. It has to be cheap and reliable. Even with a full tax credit and state incentives, the M3 final cost will be close to $33k for me. But the L2 EVSE installation cost will put it way too expensive. $20k is the max budget for our second car.

    Besides, as I commented on another thread, there is nowhere to service Tesla in my state. This kills the possibility of getting Tesla any time soon. Plus I hate Musk.
     
    #210 Salamander_King, Jan 15, 2023
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  11. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    LOL Yes, far-right views and wastes most of his time on Twitter.

    How can Model 3 be $33k OTD even with the $7.5k federal tax credit? Your state incentive would have to be $8.4k for the math to work.
     
    #211 Gokhan, Jan 15, 2023
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  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yep, the potential max state incentive is $7500. But most likely I can't qualify for the full amount.

    The lowest price M3: $43,990.
    Destination fee: $1,390
    Wall connector: $350
    Order fee: $250
    Total cost: $45,380
    With tax TOTAL: $48,418
    max fed tax: -$7500
    max state rebate: -$7500
    Final cost: $33,418
     
    #212 Salamander_King, Jan 15, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    It is not $7.5k. It is $2.25k. Also, the total is $48.9k. So, it is $39k OTD with full tax credit.

    CHEAPR—New eligible vehicles
     
    #213 Gokhan, Jan 15, 2023
  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I don't live in Connecticut. In Maine, the tax is 5.5% and is only on the Car and Charger.
     
    #214 Salamander_King, Jan 15, 2023
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    It sounds like you have plenty of state incentives there. There is no state incentive for Tesla in California—perhaps because of Elon Musk ;).
     
    #215 Gokhan, Jan 15, 2023
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Level 2 EVSE isn't a need. Depends on how far you drive day. Skip on the L2 install cost if L1 will cover the daily miles. If the daily miles are little longer, could you use a week end to top up the charge.

    Installing Level 2 could be cheaper with a Tesla. The EVSE that comes with the car is a Level 2, it just needs a 50 amp RV outlet. I don't either of my friends with a Model 3 got the Tesla wall connector.
     
    #216 Trollbait, Jan 15, 2023
  17. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    True, Tesla works with a NEMA 14-50 plug.
     
    #217 Gokhan, Jan 15, 2023
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There are adapters for nearly everything between that and the basic 15 amp outlet.
     
    #218 Trollbait, Jan 15, 2023
  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Yes, 14-50 for fastest charging.

    It sounds like you drive a Tesla Model 3 in your dreams every night. I don't know why you bought a nonhybrid Subaru instead.
     
    #219 Gokhan, Jan 15, 2023
  20. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yes, that is my plan if I get a cheap BEV. Bolt right now would be close to ~$12K NET if I get a full-fed credit AND max state rebate. But... it is always cheaper to not buy another vehicle and manage everything with a single vehicle. So far, Escape PHEV is serving us well. The only problem I have encountered with it so far is Ford's software update on the current model of Escape forcing it to start the engine whenever the ambient temp is 32F or below.
     
    #220 Salamander_King, Jan 15, 2023
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