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Featured Gen 6 Prius engine will be a “game changer,” achieve a 53% thermal efficiency

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Gokhan, Jun 7, 2024.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They aren't. The thread's title has nothing to do withe Prius. It is about Toyota's next family of engines.

    Being physically smaller, they will allow lower hoods to help with aerodynamics. They might also lower the roof line of some models. Toyota might design the Prius for Japan, but I doubt they'll do anything that would make it impossible to sell outside of Japan.
     
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  2. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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  3. Andy Pants

    Andy Pants New Member

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    @Trollbait I'm just pissy because I don't fit in the gen 5 prius. Absolutely love our gen 3, the interior volume and storage is just on point IMO. I wish they would just remake the gen 3 with the updated powertrain. When the time comes to get a new car I think I'll have to go with the new Camry, although I'm hoping to get 500k miles on the Prius first.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I agree that should be the industry practice. Changing the sheet metal art is not as important as the drivetrain and control laws.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    In terms of cargo space, Gen 4 (27) > Gen 5 (24) > Gen 3 (22) >> Gen 2 (16).

    In terms of passengers space, Gen 2 (96) > Gen 3 (94) > Gen 4 (91) = Gen 5 (91).

    In terms of total space, Gen 4 (118) > Gen 3 (116) > Gen 5 (115) > Gen 2 (112).

    The numbers are in ft³.

    For most people, the cargo space matters most; so, Gen 4 wins, and Gen 5 is the runner-up. Gen 2 has a tiny cargo space. The only advantage of Gen 2 and Gen 3 is that the slightly raised roof could help people with limited agility to get in and out easier. However, Gen 2 has a dismal cargo space.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I only have two:
    upload_2024-6-17_5-54-5.png
    • "Stop-Start" misleads the actual BMW REx operation.
      • The engine does not come on just because the brake is released
    • My Tesla has 3x the cargo space over the BMW i3-REx.
    • Charge times shown are longer than my cars:
      • <3 hrs - BMW i3-REx
      • <7 hrs - Tesla Model 3
    Bob Wilson
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    interior space in cubic feet is a useless measurement, unless you're filling the car with h2o
     
  8. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Could that hours charging time be misleading. I know you take long trips and those times would not be acceptable. So is the M3's 9.5 hours on a simple home 240V outlet input and not a supercharger? What would it take to charge 10 to 90% on a 120?
     
  9. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    Gen 2 has great cargo space. G4 Prime has less based on my experience. It has that drop down floor which is a bit annoying. I took home two full size clearance dishwashers in my G2. Ten foot lumber fits when put up on the dash under padding. Eight foot no sweat. All with hatch closed. Raining, no problem. I saw giant pickups without an eight foot bed unable to stow what I could stow in a G2, enclosed. I don’t care what numbers are thrown up.
     
  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    If you are going to be driving 200+ miles per day, you want to make sure you have a 240V outlet to charge on.
    Typically, a 120V outlet will give you about 3-4 miles per hour of charge.

    If the car has 300 miles of range, 10%-90% on a 120V plug would take about 3 days.
    If the car has 220 miles of range, 10%-90% on a 120V plug would take about 2 days.
     
  11. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I think this is the 100th time I have seen this kind of question asked and answered. Can people please learn to do a google search on at least this one the next time they need to know?

    Mike
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    EV range is a new skill which is why this will be broken into new and my 5 year old Tesla for charging and range:
    • New EPA specs
      • 25 kWh/100 mi
      • 240 mi range
        • 240 mi * (25 kWh / 100 mi) ~= 60 kWh (actually 55 kWh)
    • After 5 years, 135,000 mi
      • 25 kWh/100 mi (EPA rate)
      • 210 mi range
        • 210 mi * (25 kWh / 100 mi) = 52 kWh (closer to 47 kWh)
        • ~10-13% battery degradation
    • Charging profiles
      • 12 A * 120 VAC = 1.4 kW
        • 47 kWh / 1.4 kW = 33.5 hrs
      • 32 A * 240 VAC = 7.6 kW (actual 7.3 kW due to losses)
        • 47 kWh / 7.3 kW = 6.4 hrs
      • 250 kW Supercharger, ramped
        • 90 kW, ~1.5 min, to check battery, ~2 kWh
        • 178 kW, ~5 min peak rate, ~20 kWh
        • asymptotic curved line to 1 kW, 54 min, ~25 kWh
        • ~1 hr, near 0% to 100%
    1. CCS-1 chargers use the grid power to bill the owner. This includes all losses in the CCS-1 and battery charging overhead.
    2. Superchargers bill on the actual charge added to the battery which gives the Superchargers 10-15% discounted from profits.
    The Supercharger network is dense enough that I typically charge to the distance to the next Supercharger plus 30-40 miles reserve. With a 40 mi reserve, I drive 'like a bat out of H*ll'. During the drive, when the reserve reaches 30 mi, I adjust the speed down to preserve the reserve. Below 20 mi reserve, I strictly reduce speed and cabin loads to reach the supercharger. Around 10 mi, I drive to nearest L2 charger.

    In conclusion, the EPA claim of "9.5 hours at 240V" charging does not match my observed, 6.4 hrs. This 208-240 VAC, L2 charge rate is great for an overnight stay at a motel. Using Superchargers, typical times are 15-25 min to the next Supercharger with reserve. As for 120 VAC, it adds enough charge to reach an L2 or Supercharger.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I get 7 miles per charge hour on my 2021 Prius Prime Limited—twice that.
     
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  14. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    I get over 6 miles/charge hour on 120v, depending on the condition of the wiring to the outlet, it varies from near 100 volts to close to 120 with load applied.
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Three to four miles per hour of charging is a conservative range to allow for slower than optimum charging and inefficient driving.
     
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  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    That question too - has already been asked.

    .
     
    #156 hill, Jun 18, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2024
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  17. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    What am I figuring wrong. Let’s say the Prime g4 has 25 miles of range. It has a 6 kWh battery useable. A 100 volt substandard outlet charges close to 5 hours @ 1.2 kw, or 5 miles per hour. A better 120 volt, 1.4 kw outlet gives more mph than that. I do quite a bit better than 25 range in town driving.
    I’m up to over 34 miles right now. 34/5 hours is almost 7 miles per hour. Other times it is 32 miles range or over 6 mph.
    I guess the small battery magnifies the difference in efficiencies.
     
  18. Andy Pants

    Andy Pants New Member

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    They definitely fudged those numbers for gen 5 because the one I attempted to test drive you couldn't even fit a standard cooler in the hatchback portion. You could *maybe* fit 1 piece of carry-on luggage. In our gen 3 we can fit 2 coolers and a ton of groceries in the hatch, plus the additional storage in the tray underneath. Also I can fit comfortably in our gen 3 back seat whereas in the gen 5 I couldn't even get in the back seat to try it out. The one I attempted to test drive was an AWD model though, not sure if there is less room with AWD?
     
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  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    It's the same specs across the Gen 5 trim lines, including AWD, but Prius Prime has 4 ft³ less of luggage space.
     
  20. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    First, the question wasn’t about your Prime.
    Second, there are many variables around how many miles per hour you will get. A much more precise number is how many kWh you will get per hour.
    Third, an efficient driver will get more miles per charging period than an average driver.
     
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