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Featured Gen 6 Prius engine will be a “game changer,” achieve a 53% thermal efficiency

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Gokhan, Jun 7, 2024.

  1. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    I also drive a PHEV, it will get about 30 to 32 miles reliably on each full charge. We use a home L2/240 charger that takes 2- 2.5 hours to do a full charge from complete discharge.

    120 would take 6 to 8 hours to fully charge from 0 to 100%.
     
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  2. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I get over 6 mi/kWh in my 2021 Prius Prime Limited in the city as well as 57-mph freeway driving (55 mph actual speed). That is over 6 mi/kWh × 33.705 kWh/ge = 202 mpge.
     
  3. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Out of context.

    My post was regarding charging speed.
    I said a more accurate measure is kWh per hour (kWh/hour charged).
    You responded, again, with a different measure of miles driven per kWh.

    These are not the same thing.
     
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  4. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    OK, it is 6.34 kWh @ 120 V in 5 hours for 100% SOC if that helps.
     
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Published EPA scores are seriously de-rated or sandbagged from the official CAFE results, in order to somewhat better reflect what typical American drivers achieve in typical American conditions, outside the test labs.

    But YT test drivers and other hyper-milers should be able to slaughter those official EPA scores. And even match, and occasionally exceed, those underlying CAFE results. Looking back at the detailed raw test figures from which the EPA distills down to its official MPG scores, the 2020 Prius Eco CAFE-tested as 83.5598 MPG city, 77.7618 MPG highway, 80.8472 Combined.

    After de-rating and rounding under EPA rules, its official window sticker numbers were 58 / 53 / 56 MPG. So don't get too excited about very high MPGs on YT test drives, because the official EPA scores will very definitely be significantly lower. That is how this game has worked since the EPA started diverging from CAFE numbers about forty years ago.

    Japan uses a very different MPG testing and scoring system, not de-rated similar to US-EPA.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Japan now uses the WLTP, minus the fourth high speed cycle. Their results will be better than Europe's.
     
  7. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Senior Member

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    Forums live mostly on the latest page I think, maybe a page back. Not many want to read old stuff or search to read it. It’s good because things written 5 years ago that someone wishes they hadn't, no one is looking at anymore.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    So ... 240v will be 6-8 miles per hour - ~twice as fast.
    Someone wake me - when ANY toyota MORE than doubles its fastest charge speed (& is still slower than the slowest of the top 15 vehicle charge speeds).

    Screenshot_2024-06-18-17-22-17-70_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg
    .
     
  9. Zeromus

    Zeromus Member

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    The BZ4X has a crap charge speed yes. But until they really want to meaningfully release a proper EV platform more widely, I don't think it really matters as it relates to the more available and popular PHEVs that toyota sells. After all, the use case for these cars is not intended to be as EVs, so they're super conservative on the maximum charge speed given they do have the ICE to fall back on, and they are kinda meant to be plugged in overnight for example. They're not intended to be charged while driving longer distances between places, which is what the fast charging speeds of the cars on your chart are intended to do.

    I can only assume that the BZ4X is mostly them testing the waters on EVs than a serious effort to really compete with others right now. They're almost never first to market with anything, and always behind the curve compared to others. So I don't expect this to be any different.

    They're investing money in new battery plants and improving production at existing ones, so I can only assume they have some medium term plans to hopefully iterate on BEVs more generally. But I am not holding my breath for that right now. I am gonna guess its not gonna happen for a few years yet.
     
  10. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Not exactly. 240v usually has lots more amps as well, usually 32-40, so you end up getting 20 or 30 miles per charge.

    Mike
     
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  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Yeah I realize. However most public Chargers are 208 (under commercial load that easily draws down to 204a) ... & when you couple that with purposely throttled amps (sometimes just 20a) .... you ain't lookin' at adding 200+ miles in just 18 minutes
    ;)
    once Slower plug-in charging cars start using CATL batteries - which can take much heavier charge loads easily - things will improve.
    .
     
    #171 hill, Jun 19, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2024
  12. Pri3C

    Pri3C Active Member

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    I was referring to the Gen 2 Aqua (PriusC) released in Japan in 2022. It’s supposed be 20% more fuel efficienct than the Gen 1 (2012-2020) models and has a new “high-output bipolar nickel-hydrogen” battery system.

    Toyota to Launch All-New Aqua | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

    I’m not a hyper-miler and can still regularly get 50+ mpg on the highway and 55+ in the city in the spring and summer without much effort in my 2014, so 70-80 in a brand new model like this doesn’t seem hard to fathom. This the smallest Prius, and it’s always been one of the most efficient.
     
    #172 Pri3C, Jun 20, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2024
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if they have a 70-80 mpg epa rated hybrid, i wish they would sell it here.
     
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  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    A 20% boost will get you to 'only' 60-66 MPG, not 70-80. The differences in nation fuel efficiency ratings systems will very likely account for all the remainder of the gap.
     
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  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Prius C in USA went away because USA drivers prefer bigger cars. With the low head clearance on the latest Prius - we're lucky to still even get the prius. USA drivers are generally bigger than in japan. That effects markets too. Plus - many younger drivers just take public transportation, uber ect.
    .
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The fastest test in Japan reaches 60mph. The EPA has one that goes to 80mph. The Japan test average speed is about 10mph slower than the EPA.
    Detailed Test Information
    Emission Test Cycles: WLTC

    The new Aqua should be able to beat the gen5 Prius on the EPA test; the city, at least. It won't be an eye popping amount though.
     
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    A few numbers in the next Corolla video posted in aonther thread.
    The naturally aspirated 1.5L is targeting over 46% thermal efficiency.
     
  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Nothing there is coming from Toyota, and it is all pure speculation.

    It says that the thermal efficiency will be higher than 46.06% because BYD says that their new engines have this figure and Toyota must naturally do better than BYD. Two problems there: (1) BYD's two-decimal precision on thermal efficiency is not a very scientific way of putting it for them. So, that 46.06% figure in itself is questionable. (2) That says nothing about the Toyota engine's thermal efficiency. It may be about the same as BYD's, a little better, a little worse, much better, or much worse.

    *BIG UPDATE* The All-New 2027 Toyota Corolla will Showcase NEW Engines and Stunning Design... | PriusChat
     
    #178 Gokhan, Jun 30, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2024
  19. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Engine efficiency is fairly meaningless without knowing how the rest of the vehicle is designed.

    How does a 1994 Geo Metro Xfi get well over 40mpg with it's boxy shape and a gen 2 Prius get worse fuel mileage with it's highly aerodynamic shape? Which is using more power to push the vehicle down the road and therefore must have a more efficient engine to obtain that fuel mileage?
     
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  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    When I saw the Munro YouTube on the 2014 BMW i3, I realized the aluminum frame and carbon fiber body perfectly compensated for the heavy, 18 kWh battery. The 2017 BMW i3 I bought last year has an improved, 28-30 kWh battery with the same mass. With an improved battery, the EV range went from 72 to 106 miles. The gas range remained 88 miles.

    Bob Wilson
     
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