Gen II batteries -- a worrisome trend

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by seilerts, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    Refer to post #8 in the following string for details. Study the attached pdf file. That will give you an idea of how to access the fan. From what I have learned, it is a typical squirrel cage fan.

    Battery Fan Cleaning | PriusChat

    Best of luck to you!
    Ron (dorunron)
     
  2. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Member

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    dorunron
    Thanks

    PS maybe I will hunt up a fiber optic scope-see if I can thread it thru the vent-get a look see
    Probably easier to just pull all those panels off,but...
    Guessing they-scopes-are still too expensive, but maybe not
     
  3. terry ye

    terry ye Junior Member

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    Bad cooling design is not due to negligence. I replaced the rebuild battery using outside contractor and look detail into the cooling system while he replace the battery. For 2005 Prius, intake is on right side of the back seat and the housing of fan motor is not easy access. Right side back panel need to remove and and intake vent need to remove. Even removing the vent, it is difficult to see the fan blade. Dealer did clean the fan ($400 charge).

    Other important information I received from technician who replaced the the battery is that more Prius owner are replacing rebuild battery more often recently. He had three replacement contract near my location day he replace the battery. He said that Prius battery go bad during cold and hot weather and most of the failure is not associated with cooling system failure. If fan shut down, it trigger alarm and hybrid system shut down. Also, battery pack is inside the car and temperature variation due to weather outside has minimum affect. How the hybrid system charge and discharge cause temperature cycle. On fan motor clogging with dirt, he saw more debris on Prius use as Taxi. He said that Taxi he service in Dulles airport (Washing DC) has more hair clogged in the fan blade. I was not able to check the failed battery for debris build up within the air flow path. If debris within the airflow around the battery pack can cause short or static generated by flowing air through the debris can degrade the battery function.... I just wonder.

    For Prius owner who will replace failed hybrid battery with rebuild battery, technician recommend checking where the battery is rebuild is important. Due to battery weight and FedEx and UPS shipping high cost, battery rebuilder use cheap fright service. Even with the packing crate, truck vibration, handling during fright can cause damage. He said that Honda battery is more susceptible for damage during fright. Battery he installed was rebuild at Kansas.
     
  4. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    I agree, at least not *necessarily* due to negligence.

    Terry I bought my Prius second hand as a Toyota certified used car, immaculate condition and with only 40k miles on it. It had an absolutely clean service record, and every service had been done strictly by the book. Yet the very first summer I owned it I got symptoms of an overheating battery, lots of fan running at high speed and poor electric performance. Fortunately I found the problem myself, and quickly enough too avoid completely ruining the battery, however it has been lower on capacity ever since that event.

    So you could have had every scheduled service performed religiously at 5k miles, you could have looked after the car very well and not abused it in any way, and yet if you live in a warm climate you could still have the battery damaged due to the clogging of this fan (with no filter and originally no listed service schedule). Now I see people here are calling this negligence.

    Sorry guys, but a major system failing prematurely due to "unknown neglect" in a car that has been well looked after and maintained strictly by the book, that in my opinion is the *definition* of a poorly designed system.

    Don't get me wrong, I still love the Prius. Best car I've ever owned. But I'm not going to pretend that the battery cooling system wasn't a design weakness. It should have had an easily serviceable filter, like the cabin filter behind the glove box for example, as simple as that.
     
    Data Daedalus and PriusGuy32 like this.
  5. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Member

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    Does anyone just put some sort of filter just over or just under the intake register in the back seat.
    I could certainly crudely tape a AC filter over that intake?
    Of course I should check clean the fan 1st.
    What is the likelihood that the tech looked at-cleaned the fan when he changed out the BP 2 weeks ago?
    No mention of it on the work receipt-so probably not
     
  6. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    Yes, there are posts here on PC where folks have installed filters such as you asked about.

    Unless the work order states that the fan was cleaned, more than likely that work was not done. To properly answer that question you should consult the folks who swapped your BP.

    Best of luck to you!
     
  7. terry ye

    terry ye Junior Member

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    When dealer cleaned my fan, they riveted filter (foam type) on the fan intake housing. I found this out when I replaced the battery. I am not sure if this is part of Toyota T-SB-0153-13 technical bulletin solution but if you do not want your filter riveted, do not take it to dealer.
     
  8. deepfreeze

    deepfreeze New Member

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    New member here, just purchased a used Gen2 2007 Prius with 79k on the odo, perfect service record and in seemingly creampuff condition.
    I am a camera operator so quite familiar with both NiMH and Li-Ion battery issues, particularly SOC, charge memory and heat problems.
    What does everyone think about installing extra cooling, such as a solar powered fan mounted in line with the stock battery fan to provide extra airflow and a timed cool off after the car is shut off.

    Am I barking up the wrong tree or should I search the forum for ideas from other owners who have done such things successfully?

    Jeff H in Downey CA
     
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    The thing we normally recommend is to keep the cabin cool by using A/C. Avoid the temptation to turn off A/C to increase MPG or whatever.
    The other thing probably discussed is to hack the fan aoftware to make it come on sooner. Gen3 with solar roof uses the power to vent the inside of the car to keep it cool when sitting in the sun, so that may have merit.
     
  10. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I also feel Downey CA is not that hot to worry about needing additional cooling from another fan. Depending on how long you wish to keep the car, you should prepare on saving up for a "new" battery replacement. The batteries normally go 8 to 10+ years without doing anything additional. Heat is not the only killer of these batteries, many factors come in.
     
  11. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    To add I also want to say you probably shouldn't mess with your battery since it has a 10 year warranty in California. It may fail within that period and you'll get a new battery from Toyota for free to go another 8 to 10 years. But if you mess with it and prolong it to 11 or 12 years, then the new battery would be on you
     
  12. deepfreeze

    deepfreeze New Member

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    Whoa whoa whoa, did I hear correctly when you said Prius batteries are warranted for TEN YEARS in California?
    So...that's a California thing? Really? For sure?
    If so, wow....yaay me, I guess :)

    Okay okay, I'll just leave well enough alone then.
    I'm figuring 1200 bucks (give or take a few) isn't so bad anyway and I feel confident enough to do the installation myself. So when the time comes and the battery conks out I'll just bite the bullet, order a remanned unit and drop it in and go my merry way.

    But I guess the first and best thing I CAN do is pull the side panel off and get after that fan with a can of Dust-Off and a nice little brush to clear out all the crud, just like a desktop computer.
    That's not going to be a bad thing, right?
     
  13. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If the owners didn't drive the car much and didn't have any pets riding in the car, chances are, the fan will not be dirty.
     
  14. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    It's a good trend in one way; it shows that not everyone was gullible enough to buy a new battery when the old one started to fail. However, the supply of used batteries is sure to dwindle faster as the demand for them grows.
     
  15. Yakoma

    Yakoma Active Member

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    Note that the trend the OP perceived was almost 3 years ago.
     
  16. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    do they stil go for 600 a battery?
    i have 2 to offer if anyone is intressed
     
  17. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    location?
     
  18. CharlesJ

    CharlesJ Member

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    Yes, if it was originally sold in CA when new, 10 years or 150k mi.
    And, I think some other states with CARB type of laws.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    netherlands?
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would definitely check the fan, it's a few hours well spent when you don't know the history.
     
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