Gen II Prius Individual Battery Module Replacement

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by ryousideways, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

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    I have read that also. I think its mainly people talking about single batteries. The 5 single batteries inside the module brings in a whole new dynamic.
     
  2. Patrick Collins

    Patrick Collins New Member

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    I'm in the process of rebuilding / balancing the hybrid battery on my 2007 Prius, ~155,000 miles.

    Link below to my battery data in excel: ****EDIT Couldn't post links ****

    Module voltages measured 8.08-8.13V, with the exception of one bad module.
    Under load, modules measured 7.85-7.92V. (55W headlight).
    After 180 seconds under load, voltages dropped .27-.33V.

    It looks to me like module #18 is bad and needs to be replaced as its at a significantly lower voltage 6.86V. The rest of the modules appear to be at very similar voltages, even under load.

    I began running a discharge / charge cycle with a Protek Prodigy 610 charger on the following settings:
    NiMH
    Discharge / Charge Cycle:
    Discharge: .7 A
    Charge: 5A to 7200 mAhr
    Disc-CHG for 3 cycles

    The first 3 modules that I've discharged / charged cut off at a capacity of 7200 mAhr by the 2nd cycle and showed a final voltage between 8.98 to 9.14V.
    Cyc 1 Cyc 2
    Module 2 4567 7200
    Module 4 4304 6494 5223 7200
    Module 6 4266 6464 5200 7201
    Module 8 4304 6449 5257 7200

    I'm concerned that the voltages on the cells appear to be higher than normal before discharge / charge cycles and the first modules I've run through a cycle are showing high voltages. Any advice?
     
    #2282 Patrick Collins, Feb 5, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  3. MichaelN77

    MichaelN77 Junior Member

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    I live in a college dorm with a college student budget. I really do not have time (or money) to leave my Prius in pieces without campus police, tenants, etc.freaking out. I was wondering is it possible to replace the bad cells, put the battery back together, reinstall it and just drive as normal and eventually the cells balance themselves and all the warming lamp eventually turn off? If so how long would that take?
     
  4. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    The “whack a mole” approach doesn’t usually last long unless you find a module that is very similar to the other 27 in the pack (that can be challenging);).

    Where is Neptune, CA?

    Since you are a college student, can your Prius be down for a couple of days while you repair it?

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
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  5. MichaelN77

    MichaelN77 Junior Member

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    It probably can. I can just Uber/Lyft around and ask for rides. I just cannot leave pieces lying around that need charging and discharging in the parking lot or just sitting round in the dorm. Neptune, California is in the fictional Balboa County, California (basically North and North County San Diego and sometimes JUST San Diego). It is from the hit television series "Veronica Mars"
     
  6. MichaelN77

    MichaelN77 Junior Member

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    Okay the results are in, I have two cells out fourteen out twenty-eight that need replacing. I thought it was one continuous row. I guess it is divided in half? The paperwork does not show which ones need replacing. Is it possible to purchase pre-balanced cells? So here we go, again. What is my first step guys?
     
    #2286 MichaelN77, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  7. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    There are 28 modules and two modules make up a block. So there are 14 blocks ;).

    As for having 2 modules out:
    • How was this confirmed?
    • If they told you that 2 were out, why didn’t they give the associated code?
    • Did they tell you the voltages of the blocks?
    Once armed with better knowledge, then the fun begins:).

    I would avoid the whack a mole approach as it won’t last long and you’ll not like doing this same task again and again and again ;).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
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  8. MichaelN77

    MichaelN77 Junior Member

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    I was told over the phone and told to wait for billing to call. By the time they did everyone in service was gone. I remember the repairman not suggesting cell replacements. The paperwork only gives model numbers and information for the complete battery. Which is over $3500. I guess I will have to go over tomorrow and ask.
     
  9. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

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    If you can replace single modules yourself you can replace an entire battery pack yourself. Can you come up with 1600? That would get you 2K1Toasters kit. Brand new batteries that will not give you problems for many years. You might even get a few bucks back on the old batteries to reduce that cost some.
     
  10. MichaelN77

    MichaelN77 Junior Member

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    I am considering on leaning in that direction after getting so much conflicting information like this. I do not mind replacing some of the cells if it can get me to September when I my next wave of scholarships and financial aid that can easily pay for this. Does 2K1Toasters Kit have a website by any chance?

    IMG_1074.jpg


    IMG_1075.jpg
     
  11. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    NewPriusBatteries



    Both of those are true, to a point and it really does depend on what you want out of it. Most of what is important is to understand is, how long the fix lasts.

    The first quotation is an option if you need to get by for up to 6 months, but rest assured will will be back in the battery to replace another module sooner than later.

    The second option is maybe better, but it depends on a whole lot of factors like age of modules used, residual capacity of each module used, how well matched to its peers each module is, etc.

    If the it was the best possible rebuild it might last 1-5 years. It may be no better than option 1. You just don't know. It is a crap shoot.

    And price wise, if you are paying any more than $300-$400 for a secondhand battery, you really are better off putting that money toward a set of new modules. Then you can offset the cost further if/when you sell you current Prius modules at $20-30 a piece, depending on how good they are. Even the dead one(s) (the one(s) that caused your battery to fail) can still be sold as junk for $5. One factor you need to consider if you do sell your old modules, if ever you (or a subsequent owner) needs to supply a core in exchange for a genuine Toyota replacement you will need to purchase 28 of those $5 junk modules to reinstall in your case. Keep all the wiring anything else you do not reuse too, so you can build that battery core. If you were a person of good character, you should disclose this information as part of any sale of the car, so the prospective owner can make a fully informed decision.

    Anyway, didn't intend for this post to be this long.

    Hope you success in whichever way you decide to go.
     
    #2291 dolj, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  12. MichaelN77

    MichaelN77 Junior Member

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    Thank you, I will look into it when I get home.


    I am at Toyota. Wow, the battery is actually in really great shape. It is just two cells in the same module giving me all this trouble. Now, what?

    7F73BCA7-8AA9-422E-89EC-D7E40D4F3416.jpeg
     
  13. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I wouldn’t say it looks that great, but block 12 is the current issue;).

    Block 4 isn’t looking so hot tough either:cool:.

    That could probably be saved with the Prolong equipment, but one of the 2 modules in block 12 has lost a cell and hence it is 1.2 volts lower:(.

    But now you have more info on what to do(y).
     
  14. MichaelN77

    MichaelN77 Junior Member

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    Wow those New Prius Batteries sound amazing because of how much smaller they are. If only that could be used for more trunk space or a larger compartment under the trunk floor.

    I am really considering this:
    Prius 2004-2009 category | Greentec Auto

    Not sure if I should get the $1050 or $1350 one. I live in a state that is covered by their mobile service. I do not think they are allowed on or to perform the service on the dorm and school property. However my friend says they can use his carport. I have just enough of my financial aid to do this and I guess I can make it back up by ride share drive in my spare time.
     
  15. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    They aren't actually. The occupy the same overall footprint There is one newpriusbatteries module for every two OEM. Overall they occupy the same space in the case.
    One word. DON'T! I'll say it one more time, DO NOT! buy Greentec.

    Trust us on this. Better still just a search here on PriusChat using the search word Greentec should be enough to convince you.

    Once again, do not buy any reman/rebuilt/remanufactured/re-anything battery. Go new or fix it (i.e. module replacement) yourself. That way you will know what is done and that it is done properly. You will need to spend some time to learn what you need to do and buy the equipment you will need. But you will get a much better result. And when it fails (and it will) you will only have yourself to blame and as an added bonus you get to do it all again. When you have had enough "fun" playing whack-a-mole you will end up replacing with new. So you may as well bypass all the pain and go straight to replacing with new now.

    Seen this scenario play out so many times and yet people still purchase from Greentec and their ilk.

    Also, if you are able to stretch to $1350 then put that toward a set of newpriusbatteries.com modules. Find a way to beg, borrow or steal or otherwise obtain the $250 you need to make up the shortfall. Trust me, you will be gutted to spent $1350 on a piece of second-hand crap and then have to deal with the fallout when it fails inside of a year. Do a search and learn from the pain others have gone through

    And that bloke at Greentec must be very convincing, because he seems to throw out his line and reel them in. However, I fear he would sell his daughter to the mafia, and if his lips are moving he's lying. On second thoughts maybe I won't say that out loud.
     
    #2295 dolj, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  16. MichaelN77

    MichaelN77 Junior Member

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    Wow, okay their goes my first choice. What do you have to say about my second choice Home Town Hybrids. With this one I am not in the mobile service area. If only all of this happened before I bought the books, meal plan, new iPad and camera and lenses

    Pricing | Hometown Hybrids

    I am going to do a little more research on New Prius Batteries.
     
  17. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Hometown Hybrids (HH) have a better reputation on PC, but I honestly do not know what process they follow when they do rebuilds. So my opinion is the same as above for their rebuilt option. He does warrant the rebuild for 2 years/50,000 mi, so there's that. I would trust him to still be in business in two years.

    Out of interest, if you used HH, would you drive to TX?

    Will you be paying someone to install the NewPriusBattery (NPB), if you go that route? If so, you can add at least $400 to the price. You could ask HH whether he would fit the NPB modules and for how much, but the real attractiveness with the NPB option is savings on the labor by doing it yourself. The theoretical saving is only $25 (NPB $1600; Toyota New $1625 <– wholesale and before taxes) if HH does it for you.

    My genuine personal advice to you is, if you intend to keep the car for 3 or more years (assuming everything else about the car is above average and it has a history of being well maintained), find a way to do a replacement with new modules.

    The HH price for Toyota new is very reasonable, as is his warranty, which is better than Toyota's.

    At the end of the day you need to do the due diligence research and make a decision with which you are comfortable. No-one can tell you what to do.
     
    #2297 dolj, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Ok, so this what he says in the FAQ:
    So based on that and given what we know about them as a company, I might be open to using one of there rebuilds, if you want a two year solution. Warranty is for 2 years/50,000 miles, so you should get at least that. And that is a very confident warranty for a rebuild.
     
  19. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    I have an installer in the LAX area that does mobile installs. It would be a drive but less than to Texas.

    You can put up as many "what about this option XYZ", but they are all used. Plain and simple. Toyota and myself sell new batteries. Everyone else sells used.
     
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  20. MichaelN77

    MichaelN77 Junior Member

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    I am actually in Texas unfortunately it is the wrong side of Texas. Plus the Prius does not accelerate beyond 50MPH. Which also means I cannot ride share with it to make some money and also puts interstate or any highway driving out of the question too.

    Well since you do not like Greentech. I would order one from the other two and install it myself. I am not scared of the battery. I am terrified of removing so much of the interior to get to the battery. I have a habit of not getting it back to the way it was before no matter how careful and patient I am with it.

    It has almost 120,000 miles on it and both bumpers really need work and could fall off at anytime. They seem really secure enough for day by day with all the tape and zip ties holding them in place. Someone hit the back of my car overnight while I was on a road trip. I do not who or how it happened. Having lots of problems getting the insurance company to cover it.

    Then a few months later I was driving at almost 80MPH and a piece of those big semi tires was flapping around and could not change lanes in time and it tore through the grill on the front bumper. The force of it tore though a lot of those holes that the bolts use that hold the bumper together. One time when I was ride sharing I drove over a crushed construction barrel and it did some damage to the underside of the bumpers. It came up really fast on the freeway at night and did not give me time to react. Also does not help that during that road trip on way back I drove over a dear that was already hit by another vehicle and the antlers did something to the bumper as well. Sometime after that I had to replace the ballast on the driver headlight. I could not get everything on the bumper to go back to normal. The front bumper has been through a lot. :) I was going to worry about the front bumper after I got the back one fixed.

    Other than that the Prius is great and runs great. I even added Apple Careplay to it and LED lighting to all the interior lighting fixtures. I would love to add LED headlights and tail lights to it and non HID headlight assemblies too without the headache that seems to cause. Hopefully this is more than enough information. :)
     
    #2300 MichaelN77, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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