Gen II Prius Individual Battery Module Replacement

It is in pulled up and and then pushed down.

 

If you have a reading of 12 volts on the battery (feed side) relay you have an open circuit bus bar connection, module, supply cable, or fuse in the safety link.

John (Britprius)

 

That would be the fuse in the service plug? An open link in the buss bar or module supply cable? The buss bar on both sides at connected with the copper pieces bolted on. So the lines connecting it. I need to remove it from car again and check

 

It is not clear from your picture which side of the relays you are measuring on, but it looks like the output side, (bearing in mind I do not have a battery in front of me) and you will have no voltage reading "apart from leakage" without the contactors in.

John (Britprius)

 

I have it back on the bench. I put service plug in and checked voltage. Its consistently 220v. Strange

 

When I had it in the car it was 12v before the relay on the battery side. It read 220 the first time I touched the meter to it. After that it was always around 12. Yesterday all cells were at 8.30 today they are all 7.93.

 

A voltage of 8.3 per module suggests a surface charge that will usually disappear after standing, down to the sort of level (7.93v) you are seeing so nothing wrong there giving a battery voltage of 222.04 volts in line with what you are seeing.

John (Britprius)

 

The short term drop to just below 8v/module is normal. It is the dissipation of the "surface charge".

JeffD

John, You beat me to the comment by 30 seconds.

 

Can anyone think of a reason why when I put it back together and install it in car the triangle etc. come on and the engine won't start? I bolt it in and connect pin connectors put the two leads on and put service plug in. When I turn the ignition onit is as if the hybrid battery were missing from the car.? Has anyone experienced this?

 

Oh and the voltage when measured on battery side is around 12v. The service plug works to give all the 220v when I have the battery on the bench so it can't be the fuse inside of it.

 

When you measured the voltage out of the car presumably it was without load. This could easily be a false reading (the problem with modern digital meters). The meter does not draw any current from the circuit and so can read leakage current. Check the fuse in the safety link with the ohm meter.

John (Britprius)

 

Earlier today I checked the fuse inside the service plug by putting the meter on the ohm setting and testing for continuity. I'm wondering now if it could be a problem with the big black relays under where the leads connect? Has anyone ever seen one of those fail to work?

 

When the meter is connected to the side of the relay away from battery it starts reading around 120v but the number keeps going up like a digital stopwatch quickly rising at first then slowing and stopping around 171v. I have never put a meter on that so I don't know what is normal. Another odd thing is that you can't turn car off with your foot on the brake. I have to take my foot off of brake to turn it off. The red brake light is also illuminated over on the left side of the speedometer. The brake symbol on the right side is on as well.

 

They have been known to fail, but should not affect the reading you get on the battery side of them. This is where The Mini VCI becomes so useful. Try checking for voltage between the safety socket and the battery output leads at point where the join the contactors. This will measure the voltages of the two sections of battery (not quite half) so one side should be about 110 v or more the other 90 v or more.
The voltage you read on the inverter side could be the storage capacitors.

John (Britprius)

 

The code reader connected and gave me a code of 3030 so maybe it is just a sensor wire isn't connected. I have checked them with ohm meter and one doesn't have continuity. I will replace it and maybe that is the problem.

 

Observations:
a) Left handed - indicative of talent. Trust me on that one.
b) Holding meter probes with one hand - good chopsticks skills - possibly in favour of Asian food
c) Unsafe practice - no electric gloves on. That place in the pack is dangerous. If there is a leak - there could be voltage between the case and one of those relay outputs - in conjested place like that - touching relay output with one hand while touching the casing with your body - can kill or give unpleasunt tingle. Play safe In that place enclosure may have some sharp ends - you can cut yourself - so gloves better have overalls..

 

Thanks your right!

 

Please compare apples with apples. Different methodology and different goals, mate.

a) Do them all vs one at a time

You are trying to fix one pack at a time. My method - test hundreds quickly - know capacity of each and compile packs from tested modules with equal capacity. That is where my approach is fundamentally different from many others.

b) You can do “in parallel” other, more important things in your life

In your approach - you have to observe what you are doing.
In my lab - after 5 minute setup - the process can be easily left unattended - multiple Safety Alerts and computer-controlled process (which you do not have) allows me to do something else and not even be close to the batteries. In effect that means that I do not have to supervise equipment/batteries and can come back later - when charge or discharge has already finished, test results have been processed and documented, tabled, graphed and plotted.

My process is in the spirit of KAIZEN methodology. According to KAIZEN - “parallel” process of balancing modules is WASTE.

With "going parallel" just reassembling the pack from series into parallel would take you quite a lot of time (it is WASTE). And as people before you rightfully commented - that only levels voltages for the unbalanced pack and does not improve the pack at all (The ultimate goal is not met).

My methodology does not require that module paralleling. With my tools you will not be wasting your time on rejuvenating one bad pack - you will have hundreds of modules which were tested by HV Analyser and you will be able to compile pack from equal capacity modules. You will also sell rebuild or second hand packs with confidence and supported by documented test results.

c) Flexible, not bound to use certain chargers/loads

HV Analyser is flexible, modular device, and can be used with almost ANY Charger/Load and DOES NOT require disassembling the pack.
What it means - if you use 6amp Charger/Load with it - you'll do the capacity analysis of the pack in less than an hour and will be able to charge the whole pack within less than an hour. If you use 12 A charger/Load that twice less time. With 3A load – twice more time, etc.

d) Some examples

Yesterday I've used 3.5 Amp Load on 1/2 of the pack (38 modules NHW-11) while finalising test of the new designed 17-20 module 1.4A DC CC SMPS charger and another new HV Analyser.

Battery for testing was unknown pack from the wreck. Goal was to test new Analyser box, final test of the HV DC Charger, UAT test of the new version of the HV Analyser software (FYI - 100% success) and also see whether pack is of any good to be sold and at what price (people who buy from me know that price would be supported by the test results).

Timing: Pack was in unknown state with all voltages at around 8V (means nothing yet, similar to what you may observe after your “paralleling”).
Step one - charged @1.4A - pumped in 1.8AH. Delta V on individual modules during charge was almost nil. Good indication of health.

Step two - discharged at 3.5A down to 6V/module. Measured capacity 3.6AH (every module) with delta V within norm. At this point decision is made that pack is good and will be sold unchanged.

Step 3 (as we already know capacity) - to charge to whatever you wish - 2AH or 4 AH - depends on whether it is going on the car any time soon or will be kept for storage to be sold later.

Two days ago that charger was successfully used to rescue depleted Camry Hybrid (34 modules) – have charged 1/2 of the pack at a time - capacity was controlled by the Analyser. As there was no need to charge pack to the full - each 1/2 of the pack was pumped in exact 2AH while observing voltage delta on individual modules on the Analyser. Again – the pack was depleted in that 2012 Camry. Pack known to be good, no need for going parallel – almost nil delta V on individual modules during charge (as shown on my HV Analyser).

e) What’s on offer

For selected individuals who present certain knowledge, have experience, express positive attitude, show entrepreneurial skills and can count money well (understand that time is money) and who wish to come to New Zealand - I have very special deal on my tools - discounts, free guided tour around the city and world famous surf beach. This weekend water was still 22C (71.6F) and surf was good at Piha (Piha | Piha Beach | Piha New Zealand).

Others may wish to go "parallel" as parallel worlds surely exist

 

Yes, you have to fix the voltage sensor wire. But I can not see a broken sensor wire cutting pack voltage. The most negative voltage sensing wire is connected to ground through the battery ECU. The connection inside the battery ECU has a bunch of electronic wizadry going on. For trouble shooting purposes disconnecting the orange sensing wire plug from the battery ECU will break this ground connection.

I would:
Put some gloves on
Check for voltage leak to ground
Fix the sensor wire
Set the battery back in the car
Remove battery cover in the car
Install at least one mounting bolt for good ground
Test for voltage up and down the bus bars with and without the sensor wires plugged in.
Keep testing different points until the break is located.

Brad