Gen2 Prius: Custom PIDs for Torque (Android App) with formulas

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by usbseawolf2000, Jun 24, 2011.

  1. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    This is an approximation of what I have monitored and supported by others:

    BFM1 ON @ 97 OFF @ 93
    BFM2 ON @ 100 OFF @ 97
    BFM3 ON @ 104 OFF @ 100
    BFM4 ON @ 110 OFF @ 104

    I have only seen BFM5 one time at about 120.
     
  2. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    This is an approximation of what I have monitored and supported by others:

    BFM1 ON @ 97 OFF @ 93
    BFM2 ON @ 100 OFF @ 97
    BFM3 ON @ 104 OFF @ 100
    BFM4 ON @ 110 OFF @ 104

    I have only seen BFM5 one time at about 120.

    This is approximate as it is obvious that the control is affected by AC ON, ambient temp and light sensor. It is more aggressive on a hot, sunny day and less aggressive on a cooler, cloudy day.
     
  3. epoch_time

    epoch_time Member

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    I agree with your fan mode changes/temperatures and battery temperature does in fact control which mode the fan is in.

    You will soon learn that fan mode and manual speed settings are quite different animals.
    Manual speed seting of 1 is equal to bfm3 while vehicle stationary.
    Manual speed setting of 2 is faster than bfm4 (while stationary)
    Manual speed setting of 3 is faster than bfm5 (while stationary)
    When I refeer to bfm modes above .I'm meaning prius selects fan mode/speed.

    None of the prius selected modes will bring the battery temp down even one degree in the summer.(while vehicle stationary)
    The battery only cools down (when the vehicle speed increases).
    As well as the blower speed increase with vechicle speed.

    Why would you think any of the whimpy fan speeds (while stationary) could cool the battery when it is substanully loaded while driving (they cant even cool it with minimum stationary load).

    You can easly hear all fan mode speeds while stationary . radio , air all off.
    Then dial in scanguage setting for the same selection that the prius chose for fan mode.

    When you start noteing that manual selected speeds are 5 to 8 times faster than the prius selected fan MODES!

    Maybe you'll start listening.

    Certainly there are many torque app users that can see what im seeing and hearing
    On both genII and genIII.

    Try convincing all of them they are wrong also.
     
  4. epoch_time

    epoch_time Member

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    Hi jadziasman .
    Your refeering to fan mode when you mention seeing changes from 0,1,2,3.
    It is important to understand that fan mode and fan speed are not the same thing.
    They are related somewhat. But never exclusively the same.

    You should be monitoring VMF fan motor voltage rather than fan mode. (Since your using torque app).
    The genII pid function is labeled fan speed 0-6 it should be labeled fan mode 0-6 to be consistant with the genIII function label/title.
    Anyway VMF fan motor voltage provides a wealth of information more than fan mode.
    Fan mode is nearly useless in comparison.

    Just rember the number displayed VMF with torque app needs to be subtracted from 13 volts for a true representation of fan voltage.
    VMF in genII reports the ground potential applied to the blowers negative terminal.
    The blower motors positive terminal gets 13.8 volts.
    The lower the vmf number the faster blower motor spins (genII only)
    GenIII vmf function is a direct representation of the voltage applied to the blower motor.
    GenII vmf function is not a direct representation of the voltage until its subtracted from 13 volts.


     
  5. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    jadziasman,

    I will let you take if from here :eek:
     
  6. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    Hey epoch_time,

    As I stated, I did not verify that the fan was actually operating so I don't know for certain if the HV fan speed indicator is providing me with useful data or not.

    But if it is (and I'm confident that it is), I'll stick with the HV fan speed gauge. It's more intuitive than actual fan voltage. I believe in the KISS principle (I'm a US Navy vet).

    Besides, I have too many other gauges to want to keep track of as it is.
     
  7. epoch_time

    epoch_time Member

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    Jd wouldn't CFO be more usefull than batt fan mode.
    When using scanguage.
    And doesn't CFO change with vehicle speed?

    I believe I have found the vmf xgauge that your trying to use.
    07E22181 010782EA0325 1808 0001 0001 0000 ?
    This looks identical function wise to the torq-app code except torque then divides the value by 10.
    The last part for the above scanguage code should be 0001 000A 0000 to be identical.

    I have noted (deeply analysing code from scanguage genIII master list) that scanguage ver4.XX corrects the orignal scanguage limitation of only reading 7 byte return values by altering the last byte of rxf.
    25 last byte above in rxf should extend scanguages ability to read 7 more bytes of returned data.
    Unfortionately .
    Scanguage first second third fourth 7 byte extentions get used up at byte 31-32 Power resorce VB (hv battery pack voltage guage).
    VMF data for genII resides at byte 33 (not 32 than I posted earlier) byte 33 is unexplored area for scanguage ver 4.XX .
     
  8. epoch_time

    epoch_time Member

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    Jd wouldn't CFO be more usefull than batt fan mode.
    When using scanguage.
    And doesn't CFO change with vehicle speed?

    I believe I have found the vmf xgauge that your trying to use.
    07E22181 010782EA0325 1808 0001 0001 0000 ?
    This looks identical function wise to the torq-app code except torque then divides the value by 10.
    The last part for the above scanguage code should be 0001 000A 0000 to be identical.

    I have noted (deeply analysing code from scanguage genIII master list) that scanguage ver4.XX corrects the orignal scanguage limitation of only reading 7 byte return values by altering the last byte of rxf.
    25 last byte above in rxf should extend scanguages ability to read 7 more bytes of returned data.
    Unfortionately .
    Scanguage first second third fourth 7 byte extentions get used up at byte 31-32 Power resorce VB (hv battery pack voltage guage).
    VMF data for genII resides at byte 33 (not 32 than I posted earlier) byte 33 is unexplored area for scanguage ver 4.XX .
     
  9. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    I tested BFM, CFO and VMF when I first started monitoring battery temperatures. Once I saw the relationship and compared the results against the Repair Manual ranges and they matched both the ranges and the technical description, I dropped the CFO and VMF and have since been monitoring BFM and BT2 since.

    I never remember seeing CFO change with vehicle speed but that has been quite some time ago. I guess I will have to reconfigure the CFO to monitor it again just to answer your question.

    Once again, where is any supporting data that explains why CFO would change with vehicle speed?

    The repair manual description indicates that it sets fan speed to match battery temperature. It uses VMF as feedback to verify the fan is running at the required speed range. If it does not it sets a DTC. That is good enough for me.
     
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  10. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    epoch_time,

    I owe you a huge, humble apology. Please forgive me for doubting you.

    I monitored CF0 and VMF tonight on Engine Link, which uses the same PID's as Torque, and as you have been saying they absolutely vary with speed.

    I went back and checked the Repair Manual. The CF0 is CF and the number zero and the description Cooling Fan 0. It says it is the battery cooling fan mode. There is a CF0 and CF1 listed. The CF0 lists a range of 0 to 127.5% and CF1 lists a range of 0 to 255%. There is no explanation as to what the values mean or does it even discuss it in the description.

    All of the tests listed are with the service plug removed and the car in IG so with zero speed. I guess for troubleshooting and repair you do not need to be moving.

    When I tested the values in SGII by forcing the fan modes I was in Ready but sitting in my driveway. Once I saw that it was in range with the Repair Manual values I guess I had no other reason to monitor these values while moving. I just monitored BFM and BT2 while moving.

    Apologies again,

    Dwight
     
  11. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    What have you guys been able to learn from monitoring CF0 and VFM? It is interesting that they vary with speed. Evidently the values at zero speed are minimum values that increase with speed.

    In the short time that I monitored them it appeared that when CF0 = 50% that VFM = 2.5V. That would make CF0 = 100% and VFM = 5.0V. At least for me this was true during the time that BFM = 2.
     
  12. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    I have added CF0 and VFM to my SGII XGauges so I can monitor this more often.
     
  13. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    The 8 in the RXF 010782EA0325 takes care of the divide by ten by moving the decimal point to the left for a tenths digit. So the MTH 0001 0001 0000 in the original PID is correct.

    I monitored CF0 and VMF today with temps in the low 80's the battery fan came on. The SGII values agreed with the Engine Link values that I saw last week.

    I understand what you are saying about the Torque and Engine Link PID 2181 is using the AG value for VMF which is byte 33 and your question about how SGII gets to this area. My guess is the way SGII handles multi-frame messaging. The 0325 at the end of the RXF parameter is what handles the multi-frame messaging IIRC.

    Edit: I checked the Engine Link obddata.log file. The multi-frame messages have leading headers of 10, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25. The VMF data was in message header 25. Hence the offset of 0325.
     
  14. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    epoch_time,

    After monitoring CF0, VMF and BFM for a couple of weeks nowI have to agree with you that CF0 is the most useful indication of battery air flow.

    Dwight
     
  15. herqulees

    herqulees Junior Member

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    After days of trying to make an account on this website, I've finally managed to get on here, and now I can finally ask... has anyone found an answer for this? Just bought an 07 Prius Touring and I want EV Mode, but it has 3year/36k mile warranty so I'd rather not wire stuff under the dash and risk loosing my warranty if/when the HV battery dies.
     
  16. Drafty01

    Drafty01 Junior Member

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    Just a quick question - that's always how it starts - I've downloaded the torque app last year, and was working (some of the time) on my old phone. I could access various HV variables, which I found quite useful.
    I now have a new phone, running Android 4.2.2, and a new OBD2 adapter, but a lot of the variables that I wanted are no longer there, or are not "green" when I'm selecting them.
    I really like the HV SOC & HV current, but can't find them any more.
    Not sure what to do...
    Also, I'm not sure the app is finding the CSV file on my phone, as it goes to the blank "default" every time I start it up.
     
  17. Epiphany2000

    Epiphany2000 Member

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    Did you install the paid version on your new phone? Only the paid version will work with a custom csv file. Also, did you confirm that your new OBD2 adapter is compatible with Torque (they have a list of compatible adapters on their website)?
     
  18. hieronymous

    hieronymous Member

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    Drafty01, if you have Torque Pro and you are getting data for any of Torque's built-in gauges, then your new OBD2 adapter is OK, but your .csv file is corrupted, maybe by incorrectly modifying it and/or saving it in a non text-only format. Open Office or Libre Office are no good for this reason.

    GT-I9300 ?
     
  19. Drafty01

    Drafty01 Junior Member

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    Yes I have Torque Pro. Still having problems.
    I actually used to use the HV SOC, Friction Brake kW, HV V, HV I (Current), coolant temp & ICE revs.

    The only one's I can find now are the Coolant temp & "Engine Revs".

    It's a great App, and one that I would like to use a lot more functionality of, but cant seem to find the parameters that let it do this.

    Maybe I'm not loading the csv file in correctly - I don't know...
     
  20. Drafty01

    Drafty01 Junior Member

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    UPDATE!

    I guess I was making a few too many assumptions.
    I thought that the new phone, with new MicroSD card with all the data transferred to it would work just like the old phone with the original MicroSD card. Turns out that this isn't the case.
    I put the old MicroSD card into the new phone, (with Torque Pro installed) and all the old parameters came right up. I haven't take the car for a drive, so not sure if they're all going to work yet.

    Living in hope...
     
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