GET YOUR DEDICATED SNOW TIRES NOW !!!

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Rob43, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    629
    372
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I keep an eye on the pressure, but I don't always adjust it for temperature changes. I try to keep it slightly over the number on the door jamb, so that on the coldest days it doesn't drop below the recommended value. It looks like in a previous post I said it dropped to 33 at one point, which is not terrible in my opinion. That's the lowest I've seen all winter. The other day I checked and they were all between 35-37 at about 40 degrees, so I added some air and brought them up to 38-40. If the pressure is too high the front wheels are likely to break loose and spin if I try to accelerate too quickly, but up to 40 seems to be OK.
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    38,415
    27,206
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Still on our Nov 2010 purchased Michelin X-Ice 2's, purchased and first installed with about 300 kms on the car. We have a bit over 86K kms on the car now, and the X-Ice are on at least 4 months out of 12, sometimes closer to 5 I think. They're currently all showing at least 7/32".

    @Rob43 has read me the riot act regarding their age, but honest-to-God they look like new, no cracking.
     
  3. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,175
    821
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    It's because I care... :)

    Ten year old tires "could" suffer instantaneous delamination, this potentially means a visit to the hospital for you & the family of 4 that were in the minivan that you slide into.


    Rob43
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    38,415
    27,206
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Maybe next fall. I have some much more sexy 15" rims waiting in the wings...

    Well, in the crawl space...

    In "the shrine", as @Raytheeagle likes to say... :rolleyes:
     
    Rob43 likes this.
  5. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,175
    821
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    OK,

    So I just pulled off all 4 snow tires for the season. After a very close inspection I'll tell everyone that the Toyota engineers got it right when they designed the OE Prime lug nuts.

    The mating surface on the steel wheels & lug nuts was a perfect match.


    Rob43
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  6. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    629
    372
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Calipers confirm my tires are between 6-7/32. Is it worth trying to get part or all of another season out of them? I want to get my money's worth, but if they aren't adequate as winter tires it defeats the purpose of having them. If new tires help me avoid one accident they will easily pay for themselves. I have a few options:
    1. Leave them on for this summer and let them wear down to 2/32 legal limit. I can probably get most of the way there this summer. That saves wear on my all-seasons, but means I need to use these noisy inefficient tires all summer.
    2. Use them all of next winter, ending around 4/32 front and 5/32 rear, then rotate them and use them for part of the next the summer until they are down to 2/32
    3. Use them for a few months next winter, then replace them when they are around 5-6/32.
    @Rob43, are there any end of season deals on winter tires yet?
     
  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    5,444
    4,190
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    If that was for me, I would choose #2. And if during next winter, the car feels unsafe to drive on snow, I would do #3. How much of actual snow/ice driving do you do in your location? I live in area with average annual snow accumulation of more than 100 inches, and I keep my snow tires from Nov to Apr. But actual snow/ice drive I have to do is probably less than 14 days per season. The rest are just cold but on dry pavement. In fact, I did not buy snow tires for my PRIME until my second winter season. Almost brand new OEM all season tires with plenty of treads did OK during my first winter.
     
    #347 Salamander_King, Feb 27, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    5,444
    4,190
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    I have not seen any online tire shops with winter tire sale, but local tire shops are trying to get rid of winter tires in stock for Buy 3 and get 1 Free sale. You may have better luck with local shops at this time of year.
     
  9. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,175
    821
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Based on your location, I personally lean toward buying a new set of snow tires for your next snow season. The problem is how to get there the best way ? All of your ideas have reasonable Pros & Cons, so it's an interesting equation. I'm kinda leaning to number #1, but the big question becomes how much loss* do you think you are actually seeing.

    No deals yet, most manufactures are just starting to mold new snow tires for the next snow season.


    Rob43

    * Snow tires are least MPG efficient when new, and at their best MPG efficiency when wore out.
     
  10. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    629
    372
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Probably 90% of the winter I'm driving on dry pavement. But for the times I need snow tires, I need them to work well! If I go skiing, the minimum tread depth on I-70 is 6/32 during the winter months. They don't proactively check, but the law is there for a reason. Roads in the mountains can get really bad without any notice, and it's hard for the snow removal crews to keep up with it.

    In the summer I usually get to work with about 45% charge remaining, and can make it home with 0-5% remaining if I don't charge, or about 55-60% if I do charge at work. In the winter I usually get there with 30-40% remaining on a typical day. I have to charge to make it home in EV mode, and I usually get home with 45-55% remaining. So overall I'd say I have 15-20% less range in the winter. Part of the loss of range is due to battery temperature, but part of it is due to tires. I rarely use the heat, so that's insignificant. There's an immediate drop when I switch to winter tires, and even on very warm days in the winter I don't see normal summer range. On warmer days the battery temperature might be 50 degrees F in the morning and 60-70 degrees when I get home. In the summer the battery is usually 70-80 degrees in the morning and 90-100 by the time I get home. The fans do a decent job of keeping it from going over 100 F most of the time.

    Short answer is, I don't know how much range I lose due to tires, but it's enough to be annoying. If I had to guess, maybe 5-10%, even at 38-40 PSI. It should get better as the tires wear, but I haven't noticed much improvement between last winter and this winter.
     
  11. MTN

    MTN Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    79
    77
    2
    Location:
    SB, CA
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    We took a 2600+ mile road trip for some snowboarding last week. CA to SLC, to Bozeman/Big Sky, to Jackson/Jackson Hole, to SLC, to CA

    Scored a $200 CL deal for a set of Prime OEM 15" wheels in as-new condition, I think they were take-offs, without the tires. Then got America's Tire to price-match Costco on their coupon/sale for X-ice i3s. Plus got $50 rebate for using AT store credit card. I think the tires were ~$320 after rebate, installed.
    Basically with gas savings and the cost of renting an AWD (which wouldn't likely have actual snow/ice tires, just M+S), we got a nice "winter" tire setup for the Prime and would break even after two trips. This was our second year doing the road trip, so we'll just continue to take the Prime in the future and if we happen to see any storms forecast for more local trips, like Mammoth, I can easily swap the wheels/tires back on for a weekend trip. (it hit 80 degrees here yesterday and today!)

    TL;DR - tires worked great, didn't bother with TPMS (pressure set to 40 psi @ 55 degrees before leaving), was able to charge the car at a couple hotels and our overall trip MPG was guesstimated 56 by the car (I haven't tried to verify with tank fuel ups like I do on my other cars).
    Felt much safer having actual winter tires on during periods of extended driving in below zero weather. Over the Holidays we were in Canada and rented an AWD CUV - it had "all-season" tires and driving that around was much scarier than the Prime + X-ice! Had to slow down and let the locals with real winter tires fly by us on the chunky, frozen freeways.
     
    #351 MTN, Feb 27, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  12. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,175
    821
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Tires are always "Curing". Curing = Harder = More Efficiency.

    Snow tire sipes, as your sipes wear out & go away, MPG's/Efficiency goes up.

    Like already stated....all of these things have there Pros & Cons, so you'll need to decide what's best for your situation.


    Rob43

    PS, Your question on this matter is quite intriguing and worth thinking about. From a cost ratio basis, it's very possible that using up an old set of snow tires this way down to roughly 2/32's to 4/32's is smarter and better for the wallet.
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    5,444
    4,190
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    Yeah, driving on the snow-covered road is one thing, but if you have to drive on the snow-covered mountain road, then you will need to think about safety first. I would look for switching the tire as soon as you think it is no longer providing grip you need. In my case that can be provided with new all-season, but your situation may be vastly different.
     
  14. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    629
    372
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Fuel is cheap and tires are expensive (and they have a big environmental impact). I'm pretty sure it's better to "use up" the snow tires rather than throw them away and put on more efficient tires. Maybe I could sell them to someone who needs but can't afford some serviceable tires, but that sounds like too much hassle.

    Let's say that an average set of all season tires is $400 and lasts 40,000 miles. That's $0.01 a mile. If I use gas, that's about $0.05 a mile. If I take a 10% efficiency loss, that's a cost of $0.005 a mile (about half as much on electricity), but continuing to use the snow tires keeps wear off my all season tires at $0.01 a mile. So it is a slight savings of $0.005 a mile to "use up" snow tires in the summer if they are not otherwise useful (to resell or use in winter). If they are useful in winter they are worth around $0.03 a mile at the rate these are wearing. Hopefully other kinds last longer. It's kind of insane to pay more per mile for tires than for fuel.

    Another way to think of it is, if I'm saving $0.005 a mile by "using up" snow tires in the summer, I'd save a whole $35 over the projected 7000 miles I could get out of them. I think it's worth $35 to use quieter tiers all summer. I could probably sell these for more than $35.

    I've found from experience that as tires wear, they quickly go from being fine in the snow to dangerous, as they approach 4/32. Maybe a winter tire with some sipes left would do a little better, but this is my first time using winter tires.

    Thankfully I don't need to drive in the snow. I can always work from home or stay home from the mountains. But I like to have the option to go skiing if I want to, and the best days are the ones with the most snow.

    If the timing lined up for a new set of all-seasons, I'd run those for a winter. But there's still life left on my factory all seasons, and at around 6/32 they won't be great in the snow.
     
  15. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,175
    821
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Just so we're on the same page:

    I look at any of these snow tires turning into an A/S / Summer tire (roughly speaking) once they hit about 6/32's or less.


    Rob43
     
  16. PT Guy

    PT Guy Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2016
    687
    467
    0
    Location:
    Washington, the state
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    2/32" is just the legal minimum tread depth for summer. The prudent tread depth, especially where there can be a lot of rain, might be deeper tread. I won't run tires down to the 2/32" summer minimum nor the 4/32" snow minimum.

    I'd say run those snows all summer, then buy new snows next fall, and new all-seasons the following spring.
     
    Offline likes this.
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    38,415
    27,206
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Took those 10 year olds off Wednesday. Their manufacture date was something like February, 2010. They were first put one November 2010. I've read all the dire warnings, may well heed them. I just wish they didn't look so dang good. All have over 7/32" tread remaining.

    IMG_2103.JPG IMG_2104.JPG
     
    WilDavis likes this.
  18. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2014
    2,422
    2,061
    49
    Location:
    Top RH Corner of RH Coast on L side of The Pond
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    II
    …they look great for 10+ years. The side-walls of the original Michelin EnergySavers on my 2009 Gen II had started showing micro-cracks when I got the car (…back in 2014), and so I replaced them as soon as it was convenient. According to my tyre expert, their side-walls wear out long before the tread does! :eek:
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    38,415
    27,206
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    They're on 4+ months each winter, washed thoroughly when removed, and when dry stored on a stack in garage, with a UV opaque wheel stack cover.

    I'm a little incredulous myself. The OEM Michelin Pilots I replaced last spring, and they looked very cracked, and bits of tread getting brittle, coming off.

    Not sure, maybe have a pro look them over.
     
Loading...