Getting Blocked by ICE's (Internal combustion engines)

Curious, the spreadsheet only lists the 2017 Prius Prime, not the 2018. But I don't see what these 'credits' do.

Bob Wilson

 

The credits get a building's LEED status up, which in turn gets tax incentives.

 

Is this a CARB initiative shared by the CARB states?

The reason I ask is property taxes are 'delicate'.

Bob Wilson

 

who drives their bev to ikea, without enough juice to get home?

 

Probably none but there are also probably thousands of scenarios for needing a quick fill (lost, previous charger on route broken, closest to destination, home charger broke, ICED at work, etc, etc, etc.)

 

An expression is born, lol.

 

So are hybrids, or HEVs, and FCEVs.

If there are enough chargers to support all the BEVs and PHEVs in an area, then there is no need to limit chargers to BEVs alone.

Free charging adds a complication to this, because people, regardless of type of plug in, will charge when they don't need it, and that can cause problems for those that need one. It's like parking at a gas pump because all the front parking spots to the convenience store.

 

that is why it is okay to park your hybrid there, unless there is a law against it.

 

Are you ok with gasoline vehicles not planning ahead to have to re-route to another gas station a couple miles away? Waiting until they have a couple ounces of gas left?

Not planning ahead for fueling scenarios is foolish for any vehicles, and relying on a particular station to be open for just ones own BEV is selfish. We could never imagine doing this in our Leaf.

 

A gasoline vehicle can charge in 5 minutes, though, so it's not a huge deal to drive a couple miles out of your way, charge, then continue to your destination.

The entire point of destination charging is that L2 charging is slow (and DCFC is hard on some EV batteries *cough*Nissan*cough*), so you can do it while you're at your destination, rather than parking the car away from your destination to charge, and walking a couple miles (often with poor or nonexistent sidewalks) to get to it, or waiting a long time for a charge.

Of course, there's always the Tesla approach of just putting a big enough battery in that you're only really going to charge it overnight, or at a DCFC anyway.

 

Yup. But really bad planning to count on a destination charging spot being there for a BEV and having no backup plans. PHEVs should not have to accommodate this. If the stations are priced right, there is no shortage. Reality experience bears this out. Prioritizing vehicles does not fix the problem, just encourages acquiring the wrong vehicle and exacerbates the situation.

That might mean a BEV gets to a destination and spots are full. The right thing is to do ones business and then find a fast charger for the way home. Oh wait, didn’t plan for that or bought a vehicle with an unrealistic plan and inconvenienced yourself. Oh well.

No charging problems with our Leaf. DC charging is great and fast. A lot faster than the respectable L2 max 25 miles added range per hour. Nissan guaranteed 9+ bars for 8 years on our 30kwh battery and we only have a 3 year lease. The battery degradation is pretty sad on their passive air cooled no BMS setup, but that’s Nissans problem. The vehicle does everything we planned for and we got a great price on the lease.

 

the point of destination charging is mythical, not real. maybe for tesla, but no one has a right to tell ikea what they can do on their property. yet.

 

I think until you guys have all driven and lived with a pure BEV it is hard for you to say that PHEV's are ok to be blocking out BEV's at charging stalls. Sounds like @iplug has, so I respect his opinion, but the rest of you sound a little like you are whining that someone is screwing you out of a free quarter.

 

So you park your Camry at chargers?

Presumably Ikea can't sell alcohol without the appropriate license, and they can't forbid police from ticketing non-handicap cars in handicap spaces.

 

i certainly could, according to the sign. i've seen much worse parked in those spots.

no argument. i said the same thing in an earlier post. an ev spot is not a handicap spot, and does not carry the same restrictions.

 

Some EV spots do have those type of restrictions.

 

then that's what people should go by. if they only want bev's it should at least state that. even better would be to have some type of enforcement if possible.

otherwise? i'm going to plug in.

 

In most cases, it would be a bad business move to restrict PHEVs and that's probably why few of us have seen this strange Beverly Hills entitled BEV behavior elsewhere. Again, as stated many times before, none of this matters if we get rid of free juice - problem solved.

But if a business or municipality wants to give away free juice to attract customers to local businesses, prioritizing PHEVs over BEVs would be the more logical argument. They are less likely to squat and they are also more likely to lessen GHG/avoid gasoline use. The BEV by default can only use electrons. But a PHEV charging can substitute gasoline miles for electrons.

We could wonder if the BEV or PHEV would really be more likely to become a squatter and really do nothing but move charging from home to a free station. I am not aware of any studies on this. In my experience, however, it far more common that BEVs are squatting at free charging stations.

Before some of our Roseville municipal stations went from free to $.30/kWh, these stations were usually unavailable due to squatters. I have no problem striking up a friendly conversation with folks at charging stations, and approach drivers about their charging habits. Several BEV drivers shamelessly admitted they routinely charged there as it was free as opposed to home. They admitted that they did not need the charge to get home. I recall conversations with a RAV-4 EV and a few Leaf drivers in this regard (ashamed of my BEV and Leaf kin) - they and numerous others could be witnessed coming back to the same charging stations repeatedly and would just sit in their vehicle and do their office work, work on a laptop, smartphone, read a book, etc. for hours! Sounds like a pretty lousy cost opportunity.

The PHEV guys were usually in and out of there in 30 min to 2 hours and would actually go into the mall/local stores to run errands and spend some money on the businesses. They were harder to catch because they wouldn't just sit there in their car.

In my case, I use pay and some free chargers to extend my puny PiP electric range and avoid gas. Overall, it's been quite a bit more expensive than charging at home. And with the lure I also end up spending more at Starbucks or a mall store than the charge is worth, but at least try to support the local economy or the pay charging station.

So this is one reason I see BEVs as really the bigger problem with free chargers. Still, giving all plug-ins equal access seems the most egalitarian and fair thing to do.

 

I think our geographical location is part of our discrepancy. You live in a place that has chargers everywhere (and free chargers everywhere). Around here chargers are so few and far between that you have to rely upon them if you drive a Leaf and want to get more than a few miles from home. And when a place has them there are just 2, not a whole row of them.

But I also agree that free charging is the problem. I would be surprised if long term we see free charging persist. Even businesses that try to justify it to get more traffic to their stores will realize that a big chunk of their electricity costs are going to a handful of squatters that don't give anything back to the business.

 

Ultimately, what is the purpose of public charging?

If the purpose of public charging is to minimize CO2 emissions, PHEVs should be allowed.

If the purpose of public charging is to enable BEVs to get to a destination where they otherwise wouldn't be able to, PHEVs should not be allowed or BEVs should be given priority somehow.

If the purpose of public charging is to attract business to the site where the stations are installed, PHEVs should be allowed.