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Getting ready to do EGR/manifold/throttlebody, etc. cleaning-have lots of questions-long post-sorry

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by H00s13r, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. hotelprisoner

    hotelprisoner Member

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    Intake manifold:
    Definitely remove those sensors before introducing any cleaning products. Simple removal.

    Fuel Injectors:
    Can be removed and sent out for proper cleaning, flow testing and seal replacement. While waiting for the injectors to come back, I used a brass bottle brush attachment on my drill to clean the intake ports of the engine head (while running a tube to the Shop-Vac to collect debris). It’s a good idea to stuff a paper shop towel into the intake valve area as far as you can push it to prevent debris falling in. I would not do this with the injectors in as there’s a risk of damaging them depending on the brush size.


    iPad ?
     
    #41 hotelprisoner, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Also on intake manifold:

    Take the throttle body studs out too, need E6 torx bit. You don't HAVE to, but just to avoid chance of bending them. I'd stick with just brake cleaner. Run slim brushes down the EGR passages (I found some brushes, described as for cleaning stainless steel drinking straws, just the right diameter).

    CRC MAF Sensor Cleaner is good for the MAP Sensor methinks.

    If you don't have, I've got PDF for the throttle body stud/nut/bolt torques. 1/4" drive wrench is suitable range.
     
    #42 Mendel Leisk, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
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  3. NewHybridOwner

    NewHybridOwner Active Member

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    Could you screw two nuts onto that stud, tighten them together and then unscrew the stud. And I think PB Blaster might work better than WD 40. And maybe give the end of the stud a "gentle whack" (!!??) with something not too hard before you try unscrewing it?
     
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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Those areas you're looking into aren't the cylinders, just the intake ports of the head. They look a bit like mine did this past weekend, maybe a bit more carbony.

    If you look all the way straight in, you can see the shiny-looking 'septum' between the two intake valves and, on either side of it, the stems of the two valves themselves. Looking down the stems, you can make out the valves. If they were open and you could get your eyeballs in there and look down, then you'd be looking in the cylinder. :)

    What's like I saw this weekend is you've got all this carbon in the ports at the entrance and in about as far as the fuel injector, and after that the aluminum is shiny and clean, and the valves too, everything beyond where the fuel gets squirted in. That's the detergent in the fuel blend doing its job.

    Now, the thing everybody hates about a carboned-up intake is that that carbon layer is porous, kind of a hard sponge, and in the old days the fuel-air mix coming in from the carburetor could have the fuel soaked right out of it by the carbon sponge, and give you fits with cold starting. That would still be a problem here, if the carbon were in that part after the injector, or on the valves.

    But if it's just in the part of the port upstream of the injector, it isn't going to cause you that problem; there's no fuel in that air yet to soak out. Sure it might impede the airflow some minuscule amount, and you might prefer looking at it cleaned, but I wouldn't make a big production of it.

    (Looking again at your photo, I can't be sure if there's also carbon back there in the supposed-to-be-clean area around and behind the valves, or if that's just the lighting. Mine was all clean and shiny back there. If you've got carbon back in that area, then yeah, you probably want it out.)

    If you look up in that port you can see part of the neck of the fuel injector where it pokes through. What you do not want to see is this:

    [​IMG]

    I had that image from PriusChat seared into my eyeballs so I made sure to look up in my own ports, but for whatever reason my injectors did not look like that at all. They looked almost like these:

    [​IMG]

    clean shiny metal necks, just showing the contrasting black plastic bit on the end.

    If that's how yours look, they're probably good.
     
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  5. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Hey guys. Thanks for your continued help and feedback. Just want to give an update.
    Yesterday I worked on cleaning everything. I tried to stop up one end of the EGR cooler so I could fill it with hot water/oxiclean, but couldnt find something to keep it blocked, so I wound up using electrical tape and sealed all the parts on it where the coolant runs though, and then using a 5 gallon bucket and boiling water I mixed it up with a bunch of oxiclean and then just dropped the entire EGR cooler in the bucket and let is soak.
    While it soaked I worked on all the other parts. I did the throttle body by hand with old toothbrush and brass brushes and brake cleaner and got it all nice and clean. I then did the EGR pipe and the smaller pipe that is on the front part of the EGR cooler piece with the sensor. Got them all nice and clean.
    Remember this part?
    [​IMG]
    Well I found a youtube video where a guy shows how it call comes apart. The screws were on there super tight and when I tried to move them with a manual screwdriver I started to slightly strip them. I then grabbed my impact driver and with a hex phillips head they both came loose. I then took that cover off. From the video, I learned that there is a magnet and 2 ball bearings under it screwed onto a plunger on some springs. He showed that it must move freely and his didnt so he replaced that entire assembly. When I took mine apart it was all clean and moved very well. I used this to my advantage when cleaning the underside of it and inside where the pin goes down to the plunger part. Again using brake cleaner, and brushes, etc. I got it all nice and clean.
    I checked the EGR, drained the bucket as the water was no longer hot, reboiled some more water and mixed in more oxiclean and again re-soaked it.
    Now onto the manifold. This thing was nasty and loaded with greasy, slimy crap. I did my best to clean it, but eventually I got tired and cold from being out in the garage most of the day cleaning this stuff, so I put it into a oil catch pan and dumped the now luke warm water from the egr cooler into it and let it soak. I then took the EGR and sprayed a ton of oven cleaner in both ends and let it sit overnight. With the little energy I had left I stopped, cleaned up, and mowed my lawn. :)
    This morning was another cold and now rainy day. Since after today I have to work again the next 3 days, I was determined to get most if not all the cleaning done. I asked a neighbor to borrow their pressure washer. Out in the cold rain on my driveway I blasted the EGR with it on the most pinpoint nozzle setting. I had to hold it in my hand and spray it the other, so I got completely soaked, but man it looks almost brand new now. I went back and forth spraying all over through each end. So much crap still was coming out of it. Eventually clear water was coming out of each end. I can now look through it on both sides and see to the other side pretty much on the entire thing.
    While I was at it I decided to blast the manifold. I had already taken off all the parts yesterday in red in this pic:
    [​IMG]
    I took off that hose too.
    I then blasted it on the driveway and kept one foot on it to keep it from moving. I did adjust the dial down from the tightest jet spray settting as I didn't want to break or crack the plastic. Again I just went back and forth spraying down every hole on it, the side holes where the PCV hose conects into, etc. So much crap/oil/debris also came out. I spent probably 30 minutes spraying it as well.
    When I was done it almost looks brand new.
    I then cleaned up and went in because I was so cold from being soaked, and the cold weather, and it was raining too during all of this. I was too cold and couldn't feel my hands anymore, so I packed in and called it a day. I can now feel my hands again. ;)
    So the next time I work on this I will take some pics of the cleaned parts. The pressure washer really is the way to go in my opinion.
    So what do I have left to do:
    1) gently clean the areas where the fuel injectors are and around them.
    2) Get the OCC ( I ordered the one from Dan's recommendation thread-minus the vent on top)
    3) Put everything back together, put the coolant back in and then pray it all works again! :whistle:

    A couple of other things.
    I found that gasket. I was looking where I assumed it would have fallen down, but it was nowhere near there. I will take a pic of where I found it later this week and post it in here so future individuals where know where to look.
    I noticed it is like a spring steel gasket where it is 2 pieces of metal held or stamped together at the ends. Does it matter which way I put it back on when that time comes? I am assuming no.

    I did shine a flashlight up into those openings on the intake system to see what my fuel injectors looked like. They maybe have a tiny bit of buildup on them, but they don't at all look like the ones in that photo. I can still make out the black tip on the end so I think I am good there and won't mess with them.

    I struggled with removing the old PCV valve because my socket wasn't long enough to fit on there and allow me to completely attach the socket wrench because of the stem of the valve. I had to put the socket on, then put my wrench partially into the end and managed to loosen it. I left it in for now as I still need to clean around and above it.

    I think that is about it for now. I will try to work on this more the next day I am off, but I definitely want to mount the OCC on that bottom front part of the frame below and to the passenger side. I will take a pic next chance I get, but wondering:
    1) Where can I get a metal ring holder (would prefer metal over plastic) that I can use to hold the can.
    2) Can I drill holes into that frame so I can run some nuts and bolts through it to the frame to hold the OCC.
    3) The OCC I bought is this one.
    The reviews on it say the hoses are cheap and recommend better ones. What type of hose do I need to get and what diameter? I want to try to find them at menards. Also, I want to do what others did and reuse the original pcv hose end that flares out and connects to the manifold. I need a double ended barb connector in 3/8" diameter right?

    Sorry about another long post, but thanks for the continued help.:)
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    First time around I wasn't really prepared either. I ended up taking a piece of dowel, whittling it down into a taper, then putting a couple of layers of nitrile glove over it, tapped it in. Almost water tight, close enough anyway. I took some measurements of the ID's, ordered rubber plugs for next time.

    Some info here:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | Page 19 | PriusChat

    SAE-30R6 (or 7) rubber fuel line is good. 3/8" ID is most practical: most catch cans come with that OD for spigots. SAE30R7 is what I got, easy to get from automotive specialty stores, typically sold by the foot.

    Also the OEM PCV hose ID is (roughly) 3/8" (likely as not some close metric size). If you cut the OEM PCV hose at the center and push on 3/8" hose barb splicers (or PEX, easier to pull off later), then run 3/8" fuel line to and from the can, you'll be following the beaten path.

    Don't neglect the small diameter EGR passages, one per port. I found a brush intended for cleaning stainless steel drinking straws good for this, with a little brake cleaner.

    If you happen to use oven cleaning on the intake manifold, clean it thoroughly after. The stuff can react with coating on bolts subsequently pushed through opening on it. You want it thorougly clean and dry.
     
    #46 Mendel Leisk, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  7. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    I'm talking about the oil burning...... I would start looking for a replacement.
     
  8. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Okay. Well the day the engine goes on it, I will just junk it and get a new car. I don't think it would be worth the time and money considering how little the car is worth now. If I make it over 250K which is just shy of another 90K miles I will be happy.

    No new updates as I have been working. I plan on doing more cleaning tomorrow. My OCC from amazon shows up tomorrow. I still need a metal or plastic ring or some kind of holder. Can anyone make any recommendations? I also want to mount it below the PCV valve. I would like to mount it to the lower part of the frame. Can I drill some holes to mount it?
    Thanks
     
  9. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Does Dan make them available for purchase?
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I used a slotted angle bracket mounted on the lower front cross beam. With that you want to put something flexible between the bracket and frame, since the beam needs to flex, in particular when you use the front jacking point. I used through bolts (accessing through openings on the bottom flange of that beam), but self-tapping screws would be much easier I think, in hindsight:

    Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock! | Page 9 | PriusChat

    Another option is use the existing starter blanking plate bolts to attach a bracket. This blanking plate is on the front of the engine block, at the junction with transaxle. Someone here has used that location, posted some info but I'm not sure exactly where now.
     
  11. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    I would mount it on the drivers side by the headlight. You will need easy access to empty it.... That's where I have mine.
    Get extra long GOOD Quality reinforced hoses..... they can collapse under vacuum. I have 250,000 on mine and it uses 1 quart every 6000 miles. I run 10 w 40 synthetic. The cars are ok when lower miles but become pretty big headache when problems come up.
    Hopefully you don't pop a head gasket..........
     
  12. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Hello everyone. Sorry I haven't been back in this thread for some time. I did eventually find time to complete everything. I am happy to say that the prius is running great. Everything turned out good. I was able to thoroughly clean all the EGR components, manifold and parts, throttle body, air intake system, and was even able to take apart the EGR valve with an impact driver. The valve and springs moved very well, so I just put a dab of grease on top where I say some from factory and put it back together. Using new gaskets on the manifold, throttle body, and a new PCV valve, I installed the OCC up by the top right where most people put it. I then put everything back together, refilled the engine coolant, and re-installed the battery. I started it up in maintenance mode with coolant reservoir cap off, it ran a little shaky at first, but then settled out and a minute. After 5 minutes I ran the heat on full blast HI until fans kicked on. Saw small amount of bubbles at first in reservoir but after a few minutes it stopped. After about 10 minutes I turned off prius. I checked the coolant level a short time later and it was done just below the low mark. I refilled it with fresh coolant and checked again later and level was good. I drove it around close to the house yesterday and all was still good-ran great, and best part I didn't get any codes (I didn't have any prior to starting all of this either). I took it out again this morning for a small trip for some errands into town and it was still running great-it feels like it has a little more pep. I will look forward to seeing how it performs over the next couple of weeks in terms of MPG. Before I did all of this it wasn't suffering too bad-probably 48-50 average, but hoping that it will go up more now that this is all done.

    It is sitting at 159K, so I don't plan on doing anything again until closer to 200K. Around that time if it is still in my possession and running okay, I will probably change the plugs again along with all the coolants and ATF fluid.

    So what I have yet to do on it is the following:
    1) HYbrid fan cleaning
    2) AC cleaning

    These will be some items I will hopefully sometime later this summer. I tried to do the AC cleaning before, but all the dealerships by me could not obtain the kits to do so.

    The prius is almost due for its 5K oil change (due around 160K). Around 110K I dropped from 10K intervals to 5K intervals because it burns a lot of oil. Up to this point I have still been using FS Mobil1 0W20. I have been thinking about switching up to a slightly thicker oil to maybe help with this problem. Would it be okay to say go up to FS Mobil1 5W20? What are you guys using to help with this? I am in the Midwest (Northern Indiana), so the car will be driven in cold/snow on average 5-6 months out of the year. Would FS 5W20 be okay?

    Thanks for your continued help.
    Some pics of the completed engine compartment
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    I run 10 w 40 in the summer in SE Texas.... 250,000 runs fine.
    Have you changed the Transmission Fluid?
     
  14. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Oh forgot to mention, the OCC is just floating in that space. I put it in a beer coozie, think someone else did that as well. Anywhere I can buy a metal or strong polymer mount for it?
    Thanks
     
  15. H00s13r

    H00s13r Member

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    Okay-would 10W40 be okay with as cold as it gets here?
    I changed the ATF at 110K miles when I did the plugs, and the coolant changes, and the brake fluid change.
     
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  16. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    I would run 10 w 30 in the Winter.... My v uses about one quart in 5500 to 6000 miles
    Currently running 15 w 50 Mobile One.