"Glide Mode" Not Working

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by ChiPri, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. ChiPri

    ChiPri New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    26
    0
    0
    As of yesterday, I can no longer get the car to go into glide mode. I have an '06 and am quite familiar with the light touch on the gas pedal needed to get the car to go into "neutral." I took two 1 hour trips, and could only get arrows going in one direction or another no matter what I did. Is this I known bug? If it keeps up, I guess I'll just have to take the car to a dealer.

    Thanks for any advice you have to offer...
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,885
    1,156
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Temp, speed of travel, conditions you tried to get into 'glide', your experience level with getting into glide, efforts you made to optimize conditions for getting into glide that failed. Was the AC on, the defrost, accidently in B-mode.

    Fill in the blanks and maybe we can help.
     
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,885
    1,156
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Let me add a little...

    1)Glide is very difficult the faster you're going. In fact, at over 40-41mph it's very difficult and often not possible at all. By the time you get to 60mph it's very rare and takes a very subtle experienced foot to achieve.

    B/w 25-35mph it is difficult to get into as the ICE likes to continue to turn in all but the most specific conditions.

    That leaves the speeds of 35-40mph. If the ICE is warm, AC not at MAX, no defrost, battery SOC is good and you feather the pedal the car will almost always go into an ICE-off glide. If you repeatedly tried to get into glide at those speeds and failed then there could be some small problem with your car. My bet is that it's fine and you were trying to get into a glide under undesirable conditions and the car was doing the right thing and preventing you from doing the wrong thing.
     
  4. ChiPri

    ChiPri New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    26
    0
    0
    Thanks for your responses, Evan!

    I was going various speeds. Heat was off and periodically low. No AC. Not in B mode. Temp outside was in the mid 30s. Although I've only had the car for three months, I've become very comfortable getting it into glide under these same conditions.

    I'll see if it's working ok tomorrow... maybe it was just some freak thing. If it's still not working, I think I'll have to assume that something's wrong and take it in.

    Thanks!
     
  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    2,971
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Even on the highway, the same foot action is useful. I just look at the energy screen that shows 5 min interval chart... I am happy to see 100 mpg there and it is pretty efficient. I don't even flip to the other screen and check for the arrow.

    Dennis
     
  6. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    4,147
    10
    0
    check and make sure that the Climate control isn't set to Auto and the outlets are not on windshield. Auto is the killer for sure.
     
  7. Bill Lumbergh

    Bill Lumbergh USAF Aircraft Maintainer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    537
    5
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    What will you tell the technicians if you do bring it in? Is there a specific remedy for a car that continually charges or discharges, but won't operate in dead-band areas? My guess is that their tech data doesn't even cover such performance issues. What has your mileage been like lately?

    I've worked for a dealer (Honda), and if an Insight owner had a similar complaint, we'd be hard pressed to find anything wrong with the car. This goes over double if there is no DTC stored.

    I've noticed at temps similar to your's my car behaves far differently than it did on the few days we've had in the 40s recently. It's like anything that makes the icy road light come on also modifies how the car acts engine-wise.

    I used to be extremely in tune with the cars I owned....now I just get in and go. I coast a lot to increase mileage, but on days where the car won't let me, I just forget about it and drive. Life's too short to worry about stuff like this. B)
     
  8. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    The 06 AC has it's own electric motor so is AC on and Climate control in Auto mode still a killer?

    Wildkow
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,885
    1,156
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes, the electicity still comes from gas. It's output is regulated a bit better than it would be with a belt driven compressor, but it still is a big power drag on a relatively low power vehicle.
     
  10. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    610
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    your temps are pretty cold. not saying that "stealth" is not possible. it is very possible, but the temps will push that possibility down a bit.

    a positive grade, even a very slight one will also push the odds up.

    a head wind can make a huge difference. a 15 mph headwind, well your car doesnt know you are doing 35 mph. to her, if feels like 50. not impossible under those circumstances, but definitely nudges the odds up.

    i can pretty much garantee you (very difficult to really do sight unseen) that there is nothing wrong with your car.

    wait till temps hits 50 and see what happens. i think you might find after 10 minutes on the road, you will not be able to keep it OUT of stealth even if you wanted to.

    why would you want to?? thats easy to answer if you can answer the question of why anyone would want to climb Mt. Everest. the fact that one knows how to manipulate a parameter in their life means for the most part that they will want to and frequently will not have a good reason as to why.

    but "good" reasons are subjective. if its ok with you, that is all that matters. also might want to consider an EV switch if its that important to you. on the latest mod for CANVIEW, we now have positive proof that forced EV mode will give you more power than being in regular stealth mode.

    *edit*

    read that last paragraph and realized i need to explain that last line.
    we now have a throttle graphing function. on that graph is a "setpoint" for EV to ICE operation. stay below the setpoint (set at about 40% for stealth or glide mode) and you will stay in stealth as long as SOC supports it (still has to be about 45% or greater) exceed the set point and the ICE kicks in no matter what the SOC is.

    BUT

    if you have an EV switch, and force EV mode, the set point moves to about the 75% range. allowing stronger acceleration without going to ICE. i have, as others here, have always noticed forced EV worked like this, but now we can quantify and track the difference.

    also... i hesistate mentioning this since the CANVIEW does not yet support the 06... so not meant as a tease, just FYI. but the EV switch is available.
     
  11. donee

    donee New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    2,956
    194
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Hi ChiPri,

    I am a new Prius owner here in Chicagoland. I have found that battery temp makes a difference. During the morning commute its usually worthless to try to drop into electric glide until the last few miles on surface streets. This is after 20 miles of mostly up and down speeds on the highway. Coasting into a stop on the ramp usually puts the battery into the green bars. Then after this the speed limit is 45, but traffic usually averages more like 35, and its slightly downhill. All the highway driving is exercising the battery, and getting it warmed up for this. This section of the trip is commonly a five minute average of 75 mpg.

    Now if its an overcast day, a similar situation exists on the evening commute. But, it its a sunny day, the car will drop into electric glide at low highway speeds (55 to 65) on occaision. Then during the surface street portion of the evening commute the car will drop into electric glide easily, and readily accellerate (which it wont do at all in the morning or on overcast days) while running on battery. At the end of these sunny day evening commutes I can feel the flow of the battery fan on the back of my neck.

    I run the temp control in Auto, with the A/C light off set to 67 F. Enter Auto, then go into the climate window and hit A/C button, and it should go off (unless you are defrosting on a day when outside humidity is high). This last part of winter and first few days of spring here have been mostly dry here. Only one day in the past two weeks where defrost was needed for more than the first few miles of the morning commute.

    Finished off the last tank at 49.4 mpg yesterday. This was mostly due to the sunny weather and slow/go traffic on the highway portion of the commutes. Temps were actually cooler than the previous tank, which was around 48 mpg. Morning temps have been sub-freezing, but no colder than about 25 F. Afternoon temps have been in the 40 s max, versus the 50's for the previous tank. Oh, and the tank will take just at 1 more gallon of gas in an evening fill up versus a morning fillup!

    Parking in the sun, even on a day in the mid 30's F results in the climate control fan speed coming down to the lowest speed in the first mile. Indeed, one day I had to up the temp setting to 72, to get the fan to slow down, as that was what the interior temp of the car was up to, and the control was trying to ventilate down to 67, my usual setting. As the battery shares this airspace in the car, this has to help keep it warm and ready for action.


    These are my experiences so far. Can't wait for the 70 F weather! I hope the long response will helpe you
     
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,885
    1,156
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Excellent point on battery temps. It takes, literally, hours of driving in cold weather for the battery to warm up to even cabin temperture, and until it does it is less efficient.
     
  13. storm petrol

    storm petrol Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    62
    0
    0
    Location:
    44 degrees, 42 minutes North; 73 degrees, 29 minu
    Hello,

    Please excuse me, but I thought the questions here were not about stealth. They were about achieving glide with the feathering technique.

    storm petrol
     
  14. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,885
    1,156
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    To glide you must be in stealth...or at least in a no fuel flow ICE spin condition. But I and everyone else (as far as I can tell) were answering specifically about gliding. Achieving a glide in anything but stealth is very difficult.
     
  15. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,512
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    The OP spoke of glide mode. Several later posters have been speaking of electric mode. "Glide" mode usually refers to a situation when there are no arrows showing on the energy graph, and is analogous to a manual-transmission car being out of gear. Once the car has warmed up it should be possible to go into glide mode regardless of road conditions or speed. Let completely off the pedal and the car goes into a very light breaking condition, emulating what an automatic transmission would do, and showing an arrow from the wheels to the battery. Apply a slight pressure and all arrows disappear, and the car continues to slow down (due to wind- and rolling-resistance) but not as much as with the foot off the pedal.

    Electric mode (which some users call "stealth" -- a militaristic-sounding term I dislike) is when the car is being propelled by the battery without the engine running. An arrow goes from the battery to the wheels, but there are no arrows coming out of the engine. This mode is trickier, though the car will do it on its own under appropriate conditions.

    Perhaps the OP would like to say if he is using glide mode in the usual sense, or if he is actually speaking of electric mode.
     
  16. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    610
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    if above a certain speed, you cannot glide and maintain a constant speed unless you have a negative grade. he does say glide mode and that is even harder to maintain if going fast enough since glide mode above the EV limit is actually impossible unless going downhill.

    sure the energy screen may not show arrows, but CANVIEW proves that there is gas being burned on level or slight downhill grades. CANVIEW also shows mileage at 100+ mpg further complicating the limited information you receive without it.
     
  17. storm petrol

    storm petrol Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    62
    0
    0
    Location:
    44 degrees, 42 minutes North; 73 degrees, 29 minu
    Evan,

    I had always considered "stealth" to be a battery powered situation. As a brandy new CAN-viewer I now suspect the ICE/Stealth button will always be showing Stealth when I am in that feathered, neutral, drifty condition that I believe was previously described as glide.

    Based on your input, Stealth is now in the process of becoming a description of the state of the internal configuration of the drive train. I think this reflects an enhanced ability to perceive them as presented on the CAN. The term is apparently evolving into a definition of a mechanical pre-condition of what had previously been percieved by the driver as an electrically propelled condition that had been called 'Stealth.'

    What was yesterday metaphysics today becomes empirical explanation!

    What shall we now call the electrically powered propulsion mode that has become a subset of "Stealth," as opposed to the unpowered version that is customarily been labeled "glide"?

    donee does describe his 'electric glide' as a powered situation. He is accelerating under battery power. Is that the new term? How about Electric Stealth?

    The theoretical underpinnings and the definitions of the words that describe them are, apparently, evolving!

    storm petrol
     
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,885
    1,156
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Ok, time out everyone. We're not going to redefine the terminology...nothing has changed as far as the definitions and now this whole thread's getting muddied by the various terms.

    Stealth:Moving under electric power alone or ICE-off conditions

    Hyper-stealth:Moving under electric power above 41mph while the ICE is spinning...no fuel is flowing, just ICE spinning.

    Glide:A no arrows on the MFD Energy screen condition while the car is in motion. Most commonly seen at speeds under 41mph with the pedal slightly depressed.

    With monitoring equipment we know that usually there is a small amount of battery power being used (usually about -6amps). So, technically, this is also a stealth or hyperstealth situation but by the original Energy screen definition it is slightly different as it implies no power to or from the battery or ICE.

    So, OP, what, exactly, did you mean by "couldn't get into a glide"?
     
  19. rdenneyutmb

    rdenneyutmb New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2006
    31
    0
    0
    efusco said: "Ok, time out everyone. We're not going to redefine the terminology...nothing has changed as far as the definitions and now this whole thread's getting muddied by the various terms.

    Stealth:Moving under electric power alone or ICE-off conditions

    Hyper-stealth:Moving under electric power above 41mph while the ICE is spinning...no fuel is flowing, just ICE spinning.

    Glide:A no arrows on the MFD Energy screen condition while the car is in motion. Most commonly seen at speeds under 41mph with the pedal slightly depressed.

    With monitoring equipment we know that usually there is a small amount of battery power being used (usually about -6amps). So, technically, this is also a stealth or hyperstealth situation but by the original Energy screen definition it is slightly different as it implies no power to or from the battery or ICE."
    ------------------
    As a new Prius owner with increasing experience with "glide," "stealth," and "hyper-stealth" as defined by efusco (thanks, incidentally), I have some question about the details of the glide state. Am I correct that the MFD arrows come on and off in response to current flows reaching preset threshholds? So in glide mode (no arrows), there is some battery drain (efusco mentions about 6 amps), right? I presume this current provides slight power to the wheels, effectively extending somewhat the distance one can achieve during the glide state.

    I have noticed that under ideal conditions, there seems to be a narrow, though significant, range in accelerator pedal positions that leaves the car in glide, as judged by a no-arrows MFD. Let up the pedal too much, regenerate. Press down too much, stealth. I have an '06, and thus, no Canview to let me answer for myself some questions about details of the glide state:

    (1) Under ideal conditions (say 30-40 mph, flat road, warmed up Prius), what is the range of currents compatible with the no-arrows condition on the MFD?

    (2) Can careful manipulation (feathering?) of the accelerator pedal position regulate the magnitude of this low current flow over this range of currents?

    (3) Finally, if the answer to (2) is "yes," is it correct to assume that to maximize mileage in P&G, optimum glide requires the minimum pedal depression (and minimum current draw) sufficient to yield the no-arrows condition on the MFD? My reasoning is that minimum current draw (and minimum electrical energy to wheels) shortens the glide, but conserves battery power, and ultimately, fuel consumption. Conversely, slight, additional pedal depression, but not so much to leave glide mode on the MFD, should permit somewhat longer gliding, but utilize more battery power (and ultimately, higher fuel consumption).

    Thanks!
     
  20. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,885
    1,156
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes.

    Right

    Probably a tiny bit, but baseline amp draw is about -2.7 depending upon what systems are running even when you're sitting still in Park/Ready. 3 more amps is virtually nothing when it comes to propelling the car. As far as I can tell anything over -6 amps shows as yellow arrows from the battery on the MFD.


    As above, I think the range is 0 to -6 amps.

    Within the 'glide' state? Probably a little, but as I state above, it's of little or no significance. That said, one can regulate the power flow to maximize 'stealth' without the ICE kicking in. Up to -50 amps without an EV button is possible when the SOC is good.

    Again, the degree of draw within the no-arrows glide is probably not important.

    Again, your reasoning is good, but the amount of energy we're talking about is very small.
     
Loading...