Global Warming - 2 German cargo ships pass through 'Arctic Passage'

what on earth are you on about? That's not what he's saying at all. Basically, not kicking the hornets' nest. Greed and focus on the short term has created dizzying array of problems, many of which are coming home to roost now.

 

Well, I'll agree that greed is the cause of many problems. However, ignorance is at the core of many more problems

I don't think anybody, or at least very few people, purposely set out to ruin the environment. After all, they have to live in it too, so unless they are psychotic or have other brain problems, the average human doesn't set out to commit suicide

For example, we once believed that "dilution was the solution." We once believed that single wall underground storage tanks would work just fine and never rot out. There are many examples of well-meaning but ignorant "solutions" to problems

There is a degree of hubris in humans when we believe we always know best, especially when we become fat and lazy on the backs of others. As Tony stated in another thread, we really have NOT solved our pollution issues, we just very conveniently outsourced them to third world nations

As I'm an engineer, folks are always bugging me (Well, ok, they are asking me, but sometimes I feel they are bugging me) about issues like the environment, science, hell, even about money

On the topic of money, I always tell people if they want money, then STOP SPENDING IT. They always appear disappointed at advice like that, maybe they are expecting some magic formula involving phases of the moon and underwear skid marks

On the topic of the environment, I always tell people that if they want to "save" the environment, then STOP BUYING S***. But that will happen when hell itself freezes solid

 

I certainly don't want to diminish the significance of the passage of the German supercargo's, but I just found an article that said they had the help of 2 Russian icebreakers. So it's not exactly open water up there. That said, it's still more thawed than in the past and will only get worse (or better if you happen to be shipping from Taiwan to Russia).

Here's the article. Note how this article sees this as a Good Thing and totally avoids anything even remotely ecological. But this being the Alaska Dispatch, I'm sure they have a different agenda than we do.

Northeast Passage vs. Northwest Passage

 

But Hell is thawing due to Global Warming, so that is a self-defeating prophecy.

 

Let's face it guys and Gals. One Solar flare and reduction in Solar activity and we are back into a "mini ice age". And, all of our blather falls right into the proverbial cocked hat.:bounce:

 

Smirk

No, we don't need THAT to happen. Though if it DOES happen, remember that the idea to turn freshly dead people into tasty protein bar food, was mine

 

I think it is time to start demonstrating the hockey stick from Hell. Hell was frozen over in a glacial period until quite recently (although it was not water ice, but instead a granite cap layer). Thanks to conservative man's abundant greed and unfathomable ignorance, Hell has experienced a long thaw and Satan has at last put away his skates. Even Kenny Lay and Jesse Helms have noticed the warming trend. Word is that Kenny has cornered the market on ice cubes in Hell thanks to his longstanding influence in the government there.

 

very true. the problem with technology is that its very presence means change. now is that change better or worse? well that depends on the person. it seems the younger the person, the more readily they have "reprogramable" brain cells that are willing to accept that change.

the problem in that is the people with the money who can control the course of society are old. many refuse to accept change or new information. which brings us to the real root of the problems. its not oil, lack of recycling, refusal to invest in sustainable living, its the internet.

the internet has caused more confusion, more misinformation and therefore more mis-steps than any other single source in the history of Man. any sort of mis-information can be put out within minutes of an event and within hours it has the potential to become a "well established fact" around the world.

so, the older you are, the more conflicting information one has in their head. many choose not to sort it out (it is NOT an easy task) take sides and defend that side to death!! (ok, maybe a bit dramatic there)

all this creates confusion. all this takes a single well defined goal with easy to understand guidelines with pinpoint accuracy and scatters its message like a prism of light across the world in an instant.

now, we would all be more conservative, more frugal, etc. but the internet has taught us to save, search for the bargain, save a penny here, etc. none of which allows sustainable living since such a thought nearly always requires a larger upfront investment.

that would not be possible since the internet has provided us a much more convenient way to borrow money we cant afford to spend and many more ways to spend it without even having to put our shoes on.

 

ound:

 

Advertisers were using the euphemistic 'SAVE' to mean 'SPEND' long before the transistor was ever invented. The internet is the root of the world's problems? Are you sure that's just coffee you're drinking?

 

cmon Hy!! you know me, a Washingtonian, home of Starbucks, we dont function in the "real world" until cup #2!!

my job's official title should be "dispelling internet myths" because most of the time, its not providing information for services my company offers, its explaining why what they read online is not an option.

 

I have no doubt

Change itself is never all better, or all worse. It depends on your perspective, which is true of most situations in life.

IMHO the root cause of the many problems we face as a society is the remarkable degree of hubris most of us possess

Just for inflicting Pukebucks on the world, I advocate the use of tactical thermonuclear weapons against the state of Washington

I've had worse cups of mud, but *never* on purpose!

 

oh dont get me wrong, i dont drink Starbucks. we have literally hundreds of independent espresso stands around here and that is who i use. local business, local money, although that is only when i am out and about. at home, i have two electric coffee makers, an espresso machine and a French Press.

 

The [shipping] transits prove nothing concerning increase or decline of sea ice. In fact the transits have become possible because satellite observation of ice cover has become available in recent years. Indeed, the AP article itself reports: Niels Stolberg, the president of Beluga, which is based in the German city of Bremen, called it the first time a Western shipping company successfully transited the Northeast Passage. 'To transit the Northeast Passage so well and professionally without incident on the premiere is the result of our extremely accurate preparation as well as the outstanding team work between our attentive captains, our reliable meteorologists and our engaged crew,' Stolberg said.”
“So, these two transits prove that ships can now plan their route through the ice when the ice cover is at summer minimum because the position of the ice is known. Such planning was not possible prior to the satellite era,” Courtney explained. “And a claim that the achievement was due to 'decline of sea ice' is an insult to the company, Beluga, that achieved the transits,”

In addition, it appears that the minimum has ended in that the last two days show an increase in arctic ice expanse. If so, the 2009 expanse will be above the 2007 recorded low and the 2008 increase above that low. So, good news! Global warming is on the reverse - while CO2 continues to rise! We can all relax and drink our espresso to stay awake.

 

In related news, even scientists and modellers who continue to believe that CO2 is driving the recent warming are admitting - in peer reviewed papers- that the temperature has not risen in a decade:

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2009/global_temperatures_09.pdf

 

I have a coffee maker, an older backup machine, a Keurig my Aunt gave me for xmas a couple of years ago as she feared I was going to kill myself drinking 4 hour old coffee

This might horrify you, but I will sometimes take hot water from the tap and make instant coffee

 

wow!! that is horrifying. almost as bad as that one year, i took that powdered Frappacino mix thinking if i combined it with ice and real coffee, it might be drinkable.... that did not work. started the experiment about 4 years ago...still have about half of that first can of powder left...thank you for not letting me get the family sized container!!

 

Well, its just that if I'm in a hurry, I'm not going to dink around and wait for a pot of coffee to brew. Yes, I could use the Keurig but I'm too cheap.

 

That's why I never got one of those: the cost of supplies would soon outstrip the cost of the machine. We stayed in a nice hotel that had a couple of Keurigs in the lobby and we both used it several times since it was complimentary.

 

Not to mention all the waste those little Keurig machines produce, the empty plastic pods.