Featured GM announces to bring back plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs)

Car dealers are begging GM for hybrids because lots of customers don't want EVs (msn.com)

"Hybrids are what’s hot right now,” said Chris Hemmersmeier, a Salt Lake City-area car dealer who has GM stores as well as other brands, including Kia and Jeep.

"He said hybrid models at those non-GM stores—including the Kia Sportage compact SUV and Stellantis’ Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee plug-in-hybrid SUVs, sold under the 4xe name—have been selling briskly, and he’s worried GM’s EV-heavy focus will cause his stores to lose customers. “I’d like to see GM prioritize hybrids,” said Hemmersmeier, who operates Chevrolet and Buick-GMC stores and hasn’t been involved in the dealer-committee meetings with company executives."

I know the quotes are hard to believe -but- just maybe a businessman who owns three different brands of Dealerships and has actually real word experience on what his customers want and dealing with them may have a better insight into this subject than us posters on Prius Chat.

 

I wouldn’t base my market research on one dealer in Salt Lake City.
That being said, what’s hot right now is not something you can base your future on.
If gm already had hybrids, and decided that now is the time to increase production, that would make more sense.

 

the thing is, as the feds continually enact greater & greater regulations, it's neither up to Prius Chatters nor Auto dealers. right or wrong, if the prevailing winds of "science" tell us wiping out all that being re-released CO2 (other than that released by humans & other air breathing species exhaling) .... than there is no meaningful remaining choice.
As for the hair on fire hysterical screaming of dealerships, their claims that EV sales are non-existent to tepid is just more more fake news

These Countries Are Adopting Electric Vehicles the Fastest | World Resources Institute.

Germany Norway Finland Etc are also much faster adapters than USA.
.

 

Some Kona EV owners weren't as lucky as you, even after two recalls...

Hyundai Kona EV Catches Fire In Underground Parking Lot In Quebec

No need of me walking back from the ledge since I won't even get close to that Korean ledge lol

 

Your right but I think this illustrates what people want- a sizeable portion do not want EV's right now - just what Toyota has maintained.

A Hybrid is a great first step.
For us a Prius let me know - hey I can save big money with this vehicle - and thousands of dollars in fuel and transportation costs. Maybe Hybrid/EV's make good economic sense.

For me the article is showing that Dealers detect a similar feeling in their customers. Maybe they don't want to jump in the pool completely with a BEV but dip their toes in first with a PHEV. After driving a PHEV or Hybrid for a while they may say hey this is pretty neat I'm ready to take the jump to an EV.

 

WALK BACK FROM THE EDGE, TAKE A DEEP BREATH- DON'T JUMP - THERE IS HELP AVAILABLE!

 

A sizeable portions want one as the sales of the Model Y shows, which is pretty the opposite of what Toyota has been saying. If they had an appealing EV produced at a rate to satisfy the demand, maybe the first three most sold car globally in 2023 would have been Toyotas.

 

I didn't get help from Hyundai when my 2013 Hyundai Tucson engine broke at 186k km so don't mind if I'll be more careful next time about buying a Korean vehicle. Their track record speaks for itself. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I'm no fool.

 

Hyundia's' come with a 10 year /100,000 mile powertrain warranty.

A car with 186k on it sounds like it was quite the workhorse - must have been very dependable!

Got it - Tesla =good / everyone else= bad - except that is about as far from the truth and balanced point of view as you can get.

 

It broke down in 2021, that's just 23k km per year. If that's what Korean's manufacturers consider a work horse, no wonder they had so many failed engines from 2011 to 2022 lol. My 2002 Honda Odyssey was still going strong in 2016 at over 300k km until a tree decided it was time for it to go to the scrap yard

Never did I say Tesla=good and everyone else=bad. I'm just saying that people DO want EV as the sales of the Model Y shows. But you have to agree the reviews of the BZ4X weren't too kind when it was released and my own experience with a Korean vehicle, including from other people I know will make me stay away from them for the short and medium term future. Long term, it's too early to tell.

Currently, I'm happy with my Model 3 but with the Supercharger network opening up (because let's face it, the other network reliability sucks, including in Canada), I'll expand my search criteria for my next EV, but the Koreans will not be part of it.

 

a few bad examples from Korea would be like saying all Toyotas are bad because some of 'em had unintended acceleration which resulted in damages injuries & deaths. All manufacturers have a few bad apples when you make hundreds of thousands or millions of vehicles
.

 

There are other articles with timelines. They currently make phevs for the chinese market with joint ventures. They are having quality and cost problems today with their EVs, and phev makes perfect sense for towing without needing a huge battery that won't be used much when not.

Timeline is in time to satisfy US and euro emissions regulations, which means fairly soon. Definitely within the next 5 years maybe sooner. Barra said they plan to be all electric for the US in 2035, and phevs will not be coming back this year. F150 hybrid sells well, a phev gm truck might sell even better ;-)

 

This is one of those pet peeves of mine. It brings everything you say into question.
He did not say that, didn't even comment on Tesla being good. He did comment that the Model Y was the worlds best selling vehicle. I believe, in the past, you have made similar comments about Toyota sales.

Please don't twist other people's words and then put them forward as their own statement. It doesn't help the discussion.

 

Except for Hyundai/KIA, it wasn't just a few bad examples, more like the other way around for some models. This is the back of my (small) Hyundai dealer when I brought the Tucson to be checked up in 2021.



Look at all the crates of broken engine! And those crates don't seem that old either, maybe just a few months? It was mid summer so definitely not been there through winter.

Plus, in some states, you can't even insure some Hyundai and KIA because they cheaped out and didn't put an engine immobilizer. So many Hyundai/KIA got stolen because of a Tiktok challenge that insurance company refused to insure them.

They have a well deserved bad reputation for a reason.

 

Point taken.

I have often admired how many wordsmiths here twist subjects into all things Tesla .

 

Tesla was brought in the discussion because one of their vehicle was the best seller globally in 2023 and to emphasize that many do want an EV. If another brand had that crown instead, they would have been brought up instead. It's that simple and pertinent to the discussion.

 

I experimented with running my 2003 and 2010 Prius on high ethanol fuel:

• 85% - runs but with a check engine light. The ignition can not advance far enough to handle the high octane. However, maximum hill climb test revealed slightly superior performance. Starting in cold weather, under 50 F, tended to require at least two attempts.
• 50% - runs without a check engine light. However, mixing 10% and 85% gasoline to achieve 50% is "tricky." Best to mix in a large, gasoline tank with a fueling pump.
• Retail high ethanol gas is too expensive and not proportional to the wholesale price.
• There is at least one after market kit to handle the fuel advance without triggering a check engine light.
• The experiments are documented in PriusChat. There may be long term materials challenges but my tests were short duration, ~1-2 tanks.

Bob Wilson

 

I remember that thread.
There are people driving Priuses that swear that E0 is the way to go.
There are people driving Priuses that would use E85 and put black tape over the CEL if they thought they could get away with it..

Most people just use E10, which is Toyota's target audience.

Random thoughts:
If you have a direct (fuel) injection engine, you may want to consider burning e10, even if your dad or hippie grandad tells you it will trash your engine. Chances are that neither of those two have engineering degrees.

If you own a car with a yellow gas cap, really......use E85! Even if the energy delta and the price delta don't mesh - people don't die in wars over corn in 2024. If you rent a car and live where they sell E85, fill up with that. It will be cheaper and the extra ethanol will act as a short-term cleaning agent. Oh....and NEVER buy a car that used to be a rental car!!!

Despite my horribly uncharitable treatment of the people who use (what's advertised as...) E0 I actually buy it myself on occasion.....for long term storage. My 20-year-old Blitz! cans probably fare better with E0.

 

Since ethanol has less energy than gasoline, it's hard to wrap one's head around the idea that performance could be greater ... never mind that the fuel can be destructive to some fuel systems. Then there's a crazy notion of using corn that could be feeding starving people - and that food would be more affordable if a large portion wasn't turned in to fuel. Not to mention the petrochemicals (& refining energy) that are required for fertilizer, the petrochemicals (more energy) used for insecticide, then the energy for fermentation / transportation. Plus sucking the remaining life out of the ever lowering ground water table - that is getting awfully low.

 

Sure they are also looking at the upcoming Ram PHEV coming out.

If the 'rubbers' used in the hoses and gaskets aren't formulated for the level ethanol, they can swell. That means the ethanol is dissolving into the plastic, and when it moves out, it can take a bit of the material with it.

People don't eat the type of corn used for ethanol. Depending on prices, farmers may not grow anything if they couldn't grow the corn for ethanol or beef. Then Mexico might still be annoyed by how NAFTA allowed the US to crush their corn farmers.

Want to feed poor people elsewhere? Best to buy from their nearest farmers in order to grow the local ag industry. The US way of shipping food grown here is just corporate welfare.

Industrial farming is environmentally harmful no matter the crop with how it is done. Corn might be the worse offender with its fertilizer requirements. It could be the Native Americans last laugh at the Europeans.