Featured GM Developing Wireless EV Battery Management

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by El Dobro, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    There’s more to the article than just the wireless charging.
     
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  3. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I love the irony!

    GM historically lost most of its market share to other manufactures because the cars they built were super inefficient and the way they went about building them was super inefficient as well.

    So is anyone surprised that they're choosing the most inefficient way to charge a battery to promote themselves?

    Specifically:

    "In my tests, I found that wireless charging used, on average, around 47% more power than a cable. Charging the phone from completely dead to 100% using a cable took an average of 14.26 watt-hours (Wh). Using a wireless charger took, on average, 21.01 Wh. That comes out to slightly more than 47% more energy for the convenience of not plugging in a cable." Here's Exactly How Inefficient Wireless Charging Is - Slashdot
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Um, this has absolutely nothing to do with charging the battery.

    For those not taking @Tideland Prius hint, GM is using a wireless data network between the battery management system and the various temperature and state of charge sensors in the pack. This gets rid of a lot of copper wiring, making design and packaging easier, reducing production costs, and making it easier to upgrade the car's battery at a later date.

    Just to repeat, nothing about charging.
     
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Oh I was also talking about the fact that GM is talking about battery module swap for future upgrades (basically like OTA but for hardware.. and you have to take it into the dealer)
     
  6. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    I'm guessing the cell links will communicate with a master that then sends the relevant information to the computer. Canbus can do exactly the same thing with a single wire, technology that has been around since the'80s and works extremely well. How much copper would be saved in a single wire that went from cell top board to cell top board and on to the router that then packs all the information from that part of the vehicle up the data cable to the central CPU? SFA, wireless in an automotive application where very high voltage and currents abound is just asking for trouble, why bother except because it sounds "on trend" or some such hype BS speak?

    T1 Terry
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    One of the biggest challenges in a battery management system (BMS) is the vast voltage differences across the modules, 400-900 VDC. So techniques like optical, isolation transformers, and even wireless are used to minimize the risk of the BMS becoming an unplanned discharge path.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  8. KennyGS

    KennyGS Senior Member

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    As expected, posted hate for GM.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That was article speculation on user updates. GM is thinking updating models in production with better batteries without costly redesign.

    Each module has its own BMS programmed with what the chemistry needs to be happy. Those inform the master BMS on the module can deliver and needs.
    The cost savings comes from the design side. The Spark EV and gen1 Volt both had a battery upgrade during their run. Doing so meant redesigning the entire pack, and a new BMS. With this, you just change what battery modules are being installed at the factory,

    The advantage of GM's Ultium battery isn't in whatever chemistry they use, but in having a standard format module. Individual EV models won't have to have a battery pack designed just for them. This will reduce the time and cost for making multiple EV models.
     
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  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    put the story another way . . . the powers at GM are lovin' Tesla Models X & S tech ... which can do a battery swat in under the time it takes to gas up a car. Back when the fuel cell lobby tried to rig the system, incorporated attempts to legislate "fast refueling" so battery cars couldn't qualify for incentives. Tesla came up with a proof of concept / battery swap station. Only one needed. That foiled the fool cell lobby.



    good to see GM knows a good thing when they see it. of course they may just be changing out modules rather than a whole traction pack like Tesla proved several years ago.
    .
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what i love about gm, their lips write checks their cars can't cash
     
  12. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    I know it was a dream that will never eventuate, but a govt mandate/rule/what ever, that all battery packs must comply to a certain size, capacity and plug configuration so quick swaps were possible rather than a roll out of mega fast charging stations that damage batteries if used too often.
    Not something that is feasible with every manufacture and every model within that range having something different, but maybe one day ..... The start would be endure type electric vehicle racing, sedan type cars that are available on the street in significant numbers, that would boost the profile of EV's and possibly lead to a common battery pack idea, or even have that as an option ......

    T1 Terry
     
  13. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    The technology is moving too fast to set any such standard.
    Besides that, it is a dumb idea because batteries are big and expensive.
    If you swap out batteries, then you don't own them and you don't take care of them

    Most of the time you charge at home or work and you don't need fast charging or battery swapping.

    The current best fast chargers are 250kw (Superchargers) and 350 kw (CCS).
    A little more total range and a little faster charging and the "problem" is solved for 99% of people.

    Mike
     
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  14. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Nothing to do with battery swapping or charging. In a nutshell, it's for standardizing battery modules across the GM line to cut costs.
     
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  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    While a wireless system could make battery swapping easier, the term as being used here has nothing to do with that. Swapping means switching chemistries in production, and repairs or upgrades on cars. Not swapping batteries on the road.

    Batteries aren't propane tanks, which can hold the same amount of energy as long as they pass the safety inspection. the amount on energy a battery holds changes with time and use. Tesla's solution was to have the owner come back to the station they used for the swap, and get their battery back or be charged for a new battery. The other company that tried battery swapping in the market failed as people generally rejected it.
     
  16. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  17. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    GM is sure full of press releases this week. Timing doesn't have anything to do with Battery Day, does it?
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    NKLA has been busy too.

    Bob Wilson
     
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