GM: Holding a knife to the Volt's throat

ya well i am bit of a hypocrite. ok to see gm go, but if Ford goes, that puts about a third of my family in the unemployment line (would be a lot more but 5 have already retired, 2 the normal way, 3 who got a "forced" early out) . but at least Ford has a good hybrid option, granted no cars, but a great SUV option so at least i can justify in my mind that they are at least trying

i dont want to see any major corporation go down, but sometimes its simply the way to go and i think that one of the three has to go. as far as jobs go, create several massive federal projects INSTEAD of a charity handout.

the estimated cost according to NBC News for a high efficiency national power grid is 60 billion... (average estimates ive seen previously were 85 to 115 billion so...kinda doubt the price here) which is less than what the automakers are asking for a very very SHORT term fix... the national power grid will benefit us for DECADES



start that, put people to work!! let gets solar and wind off the ground. stop waiting for the (now broke) private sector to fund it. let the government do it...heck of a lot cheaper than a 700 billion dollar handout with questionable returns!!

sure GM going down will cost jobs, but not livelihoods!! that is the sign of a great country. one that knows that sometimes change is REQUIRED!! and nearly all change CAUSES PAIN... but the sooner the pain, the sooner the recovery...those large federal projects will need SKILLED workers, not kids... where else would we get them...what other project will have the same nationwide access to a scattered workforce like GM?

i dont think rescuing what we had is a good idea. we need an entire restructuring of America to move in a completely different direction...in most cases, as in ours, that requires a complete tear down and rebuild.

maybe looking at what happened during the last depression may not be such a bad idea... a lot of national building projects went a long way to supporting the lifestyle we now enjoy...maybe its time to do the same thing and update our basic infrastructure to get us through the next 70 years

 

I have a few others in reserve, in case the 10-22 doesn't do the job. I do like Remington, although I don't have a 700 (I'd like one, though). One of my favorites is my Remington 870. It's all flat black, with a synthetic stock. Very simple, and very reliable. Of course with the 870 we are talking about a shotgun and not a rifle.

Tom

 

Most of our bank stock is in the largest U.S. bank to not get a bailout. Go figure. It would have been nice to have the government prop up the value of that stock, instead of us getting back pennies on the dollar. Then again, they didn't ask me where to draw the line.

Tom

 

The automotive industry can survive a Chrysler bk but if ford or gm go down the whole industry follows. It is too interconnected.

 

Coach (or business if flying overseas) is good enough for the Dalai Lama... should be good enough for Mr. Wattanabe.

 

The fact is that with its present management in place, GM has an unsustainable business model. Unless some serious reorganization takes place, any money thrown their way is like giving cash to a heroin addict to straighten himself out. GM's BIG problem is that it is being run by the Bean Counters. "Why invest in green technology when you are making 7 - 8K on Tahoe's and Denali's? I would bet that if GM get the money, one of the first belt tightening measures would be to drop the Volt.

On the other hand, Ford has been trying and has had a couple of decent hybrids for several years. They are about to release another Hybrid (I forgot the brand name) I think a "bridge loan" to Ford would be helpful.

I won't comment on Chrysler, except to say a rescue there is a joke.

 

read the Thomas Friedman book "Hot Flat and Crowded"

he has some pretty good ideas about what we need to do to get out of the mess we are in and avoid the much bigger mess (if we are not too late) that will be coming up if we dont change our ways and it all is based on going green.

 

Some good ideas indeed, but we are past that point I am afraid. I have seen him on the televison over the last month and I have seen his entire demeanor about the economy and Detroit change before my eyes.

 

cant say its too late... always have to believe we can overcome. sure it will be tough, but mostly because we have waited so long, but i think we can still do it.

hopefully with minimal casualties at first(by minimal, i mean less than 15% of people changing jobs to fill the green need)

 

Before giving the car industry the equivalent of 2.5 months of Iraq expenses, the Dems have asked for a business plan that moves Detroit into the 21st century. That means green cars and sensible wages for its executives, among other things. They will be hard-pressed to come up with something convincing by Dec. 2.

My view is the pols should stick around DC until this is done. By Dec 2, the stock market is liable to be in negative territory. My guess is they all have their money safely tucked away in T-bills, and don't grasp the severity of the problem. This is a much bigger national security issue than Iraq will ever be. Right now, blue chip stocks are so cheap China and the Saudis could buy up a good deal of the country's corporations--if they haven't already.

 

Where the hell was the business plans for the financial sector? They should have had requirements also. This crap of giving one man the power to do what he wishes is crazy.

 

That is precisely why they asked Detroit for a business plan. After the $180 Billion that disappeared into the AIG blackhole, accountability is suddenly in vogue.

At least the Government-Sponsored Enterprises that were bailed out (Fannie and Freddie) were more highly regulated so they had to be more accountable than AIG, which as an insurance company was only answerable to state-level regulators.

Heck, Detroit might have gotten away with a bailout if they had asked for one before the AIG debacle went down.

 

I'm willing to bet $1 that the plan Detroit will be presenting Congress in 12 days won't contain a provision for any of those CEOs salary to be cut to $1.

 

Hell, the termites started that four decades ago. One strong gust, the tree is going over. We can thank criminally incompetent corporate executives, mafia-controlled unions, democrats, and republicans, for selling us out.

They don't care, they not only took the cream off the top, they took the rest. All we have to drink is a milk substitute high in melamine additives

I find it interesting how a very few handful of talking heads *did* warn about this, at least a year ago. They were labeled as alarmist, nut jobs, even racist. Now we have a crippling severe global recession that could very well be the dominoes you're referring to . We live in interesting times, indeed

How about Iceland? There is hardly one peep about Iceland on the Canadian "news" channels (The Liberal-butt-kissing CTV Newsnet, the government owned Liberal-friendly CBC Newsworld) or any of the US "news" channels

Around two months ago, BBC reported on something very interesting happening in Iceland. Given current global economic conditions, what happened in Iceland is a taste of what will happen elsewhere. What happened in Iceland could *very* easily happen here.

 

I think you'll easily win that bet

 

You already lost that bet. Chrysler's CEO Robert Nardelli has a salary of $1. He came from Home Depot and was at GE before that. He only started August 2007. I don't see any hope for Chrysler except to break it up and sell it.

Wagoner did cut his salary in 2006 by 50%. In 2006 his "total compensation" was ~10/10/80 salary / pension /performance bonus. Of that performance bonus half was stock and half was stock options - the opportunity to PURCHASE stock at below market value. The stock vests after 5 years the options after 3. The stock has a "strike price" of $20 per share. That means if the price of GM stock falls below $20 in the vesting period he loses the stock. GM is now at $2.88 per share. GM stock was $30-$35 in 2006 so any stock he PURCHASED but was not allowed to sell has fallen 90% and he is still not allowed to sell it. BTW his is back up to $2.2 million for 2008. Regardless, Wagoner has experienced a huge personal loss from the failure of GM. He is also the only CEO with a history in the auto business.


Ford's CEO Alan Mulally came from Boeing in Sept 2006. He was hired because of his very successful turnaround of Boeing and his salary is $2m. In his two years on the job he has pushed through downsizing and restructuring, a new agreement with the UAW with significant cost saving, and a new product push for smaller and more fuel efficient vehicle. The cornerstone of this plan in EcoBoost technology that is being introduced in 2009 models and will be rolled out across the lineup through 2012. In my mind, Ford has the best chance of a turn around and Mulally should stay on the job.

 

Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli said he would accept $1 per year in salary if it helped Chrysler obtain its $7 billion share of a proposed $25 billion automaker rescue package.

Nardelli said he would make that gesture in response to a question from Sen. Jon Tester, D-Montana, who said sacrifice by Lee Iacocca in 1979 helped Chrysler Corp. win a $1.5 billion loan guarantee.

... In January 2007, Nardelli resigned as chairman of Home Depot Inc. after six years. His $210 million severance package sparked a firestorm of controversy. He isn’t required to disclose his salary at Chrysler, which is owned by the private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management.

Chrysler's Nardelli Says He'd Mimic Iacocca, Accept $1 Salary | workforce.com

 

It is real easy to say he will accept a salary of $1 since he already has:

Robert Nardelli named CEO of Chrysler - Aug. 5, 2007

"However, a source inside Cerberus says that Nardelli will receive only $1 a year in base salary. This person would not go into detail regarding the rest of Nardelli's pay package, and would only add that Nardelli's pay will be directly tied to the success of Chrysler's turnaround."

These is from when he was hired roughly 16 months ago.

 

if you would like to contribute to the Big 3 bailout fund. check this box and $3 will go to them. checking this box WILL REDUCE YOUR REFUND BY $3

 

As the local representative of the status quo, in the literal sense, Malorn brings up the key threat to the immediate implosion of one or all of the detroiters. 'Immediate' is emphasized because the three have been slowly imlpoding themselves for the last 15 yrs. Drunk on stupid margins on trucks and SUVs they did not keep a balance in their corporate lives.

Keep peace, give the UAW what they want, the margins on the BOFs will pay for it.
Ignore small vehicles because of the legacy costs, that's OK the BOFs will pay for them.
Laugh at the Prius Who'd want to ride in such a poc when you can ride in an Escalade or ... Ta DA ... a Hummer.


Well the lack of balance has come around to give the three of them a good shove in the back and into the grave. Interestingly Ford may have the best chance of avoiding a dirt nap .. but then it also has been in the hybrid business longer and in more depth than the others.

But to Malorn's specific comment. I do agree :cheer2: with him! ????? Wat?

Well he's right if one or two of the D3 do go under say GM and Chrysler then there will be massive pain felt all over the Midwest and in towns dependent on the two for downstream income. That's not hard to see. 10% unemployment might be the average in these areas.

But....Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, Kentucky will suddenly have booming employment in the towns with transplant facilities. States like ME, RI, NY, TX, CO, AZ, CA, OR and WA.... ZERO effect. If they even notice the switch in production from say GM to Ford or to Toyota it will only be on the local leve where the Ford and Honda and Toyota stores will be booming on the weekends while the wreckers level the GM and Chrysler facilities.

The key point in this not-so-subtle threat is that the economy depends on production. This is entirely 180 deg wrong. Our economy depends on purchases/sales/buyers. As we've seen these last 8 yrs Detoit can produce the hell out of their product line but without buyers the products sit and the companies die a slow death. The Malorn/detroit/UAW threat is that if production is shutdown there will be no vehicles to buy. Hello, that ignores the basic 'need' in the US for about 10 million units annually come rain, shine or recession. We will always build/sell 10 MM units. In good years that will rise to 14 - 16 MM units.

Take GM's and Chrysler's production out of circulation and their loss is Ford's or Toyota's or HOnda's or BMW's gain. It's a one for one exchange .. or a Zero Sum Game. It will hurt GM/Chrysler towns but it will benefit the other towns. In most areas it will have no effect at all.

Empty threats.