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GM in talks with Toyota.....maybe.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Godiva, May 9, 2005.

  1. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    GM Denies Report of Talks With Toyota

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050509/ap_on_.../general_motors

    NEW YORK - General Motors Corp. denied Sunday an online news report that the U.S. automaker and
    Toyota Motor Corp. of Japan are in talks about a possible technology-sharing pact that could result in a quicker, wider offering of gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles.

    GM, Toyota in talks to on hybrids- source

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050509/bs_nm/...os_gm_toyota_dc

    TOKYO (Reuters) - Auto makers General Motors Corp. (NYSE:GM - news) and Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.T) are in talks for a possible technology-sharing deal on hybrid vehicles, the Asian Wall Street Journal reported on Monday.

    GM and Ford plunge to junk status

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0...1477467,00.html

    The scale of the financial crisis facing Ford and General Motors was underscored yesterday when a key credit agency cut its rating on the automakers to "junk" status.

    GM, Ford mistakes cost them

    http://www.nwherald.com/BusinessSection/35...00047257033.php

    General Motors Corp. Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner did not think much of hybrid cars in 2002.

    He said then that the fuel- and emissions-saving automobiles made more sense for Tokyo's stop-and-go driving and $4-a-gallon gasoline than for the United States.

    Instead, Wagoner emphasized fuel cells. But after sales surged for Japanese rival Toyota Motor Corp.'s Prius gasoline-electric hybrid, Wagoner backtracked.

    **************

    Do I believe the story? Yes. I think GM is going to make a deal with Toyota.

    I'm thinking that if GM is smart they'll get down on their knees, kiss Toyota's ring and then give them a lot of money. They need to find a really good recipe for crow, swallow it with a side portion of pride then start making the best gas-electric hybrid they can as fast as they can. No, it won't be as good as a Prius, but since they are way far behind even Ford, they need to play catch-up or start selling off their assets. They may end up doing both.

    Let's face it. The price of gas is never going down. And as it goes up, less and less people are going to be buying their big trucks and SUVs. They'll look for a truck or SUV that gets better mileage. And if that's a gas-electric hybrid that someone else makes...well money is thicker than brand loyalty. And since Toyota has the best hybrid technology right now......well....do the math.

    ******************

    America's passion for burly SUV fizzles
    Showrooms anemic, but customers paying full price for Toyota's hybrid

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...L&feed=rss.news

    "Why are they not selling cars?" asks Csaba Csere, editor-in-chief of Car and Driver magazine. "It's an inability to create cars that people really want to buy. Ultimately, it's a customer-driven market right now. Sales have been strong, hovering around 17 million units (cars, SUVs and light trucks) a year. The last five years were the best in history."

    The car market, however, is saturated, Csere said, and "to connect (with customers), you've got to be producing a vehicle they really want to buy."

    Alan Shivers, the dealer's sales manager, says that of the roughly 105 cars he sells each month, 50 to 60 are Priuses. Nationally, Toyota has already doubled the sale of Priuses in the first three months of this year over the same period last year, according to Autodata Corp, as reported by the Associated Press.

    *************

    Of course, that could only be in San Francisco. But I don't think so.
     
    #1 Godiva, May 9, 2005
  2. Bill60546

    Bill60546 Member

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    "Make the deal Sonny"
     
    #2 Bill60546, May 9, 2005
  3. NuShrike

    NuShrike Active Member

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    Doesn't Opel (GM) already have a diesel-hybrid coming out in Europe? It's doesn't sound like GM doesn't have the tech already.
     
    #3 NuShrike, May 9, 2005
  4. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    I hope Toyota goes through the negotiations, gets GM's lips wet, then pulls out of the deal at the last second.

    Die, GM, Die.
     
    #4 Danny, May 9, 2005
  5. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill60546\";p=\"88152)</div>
    :lolup: :lolup:

    This really is an offer GM can't refuse...
     
    #5 bookrats, May 9, 2005
  6. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    Didn't GM and Toyota have a deal in the past? Wasn't the Geo (Chevy) Prism a Toyota? My sister in law has one and it's a great car.
     
    #6 paprius4030, May 9, 2005
  7. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny\";p=\"88186)</div>
    Now Danny, that's just a little spiteful, don't you think? ;-)

    The proper way to do it is to let GM spin their wheels for a year or two, waste some of their cash on hand, watch their market share deteriorate, and then offer to purchase car lines from them for hybrid conversion. That would not only deeply wound GM but would keep any brand loyalty. For example, if Toyota bought Buick and created a HSD Regal, my wife would be #1 in line.

    It's not just as easy as pulling a trigger and putting a bullet in their head. You have to make them squirm, let think they have hope, make them waste all their money, give them time to think about their mistakes, humiliate them globally, and then come in as the savior to buy them out and restore the newly acquired company to operating levels.

    War is Hell.
    Business is War.
     
    #7 TonyPSchaefer, May 9, 2005
  8. Charles Suitt

    Charles Suitt Senior Member

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    :roll: "Die, GM, Die!" ???? I don't think SO.!! I respectfully disagree. Then, our loving government would take multiple-hundred-millions-$$$ to "bail GM out" to "save the jobs" and we (the humble taxpayers) would pay the bill.

    The encouraging thing is that, FINALLY, GM has realized that their desperate clinging to the SUV craze is, at the least, a losing cause. While, ultimately, the Hybrid solution may be an interim technology, it is available now and other technologies may take many more years to become practically available.

    Meanwhile, I sure am enjoying the fuel savings and reduced polution of the very air I breathe. Not just that, the Prius is FUN to drive.
     
    #8 Charles Suitt, May 9, 2005
  9. Robert Taylor

    Robert Taylor New Member

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    GM's bond rating has finally fallen to the level of their vehicle quality. I have purchased two brand new GM vehicles in my life and neither would start reliabily.

    Eventually, GM must file bankruptcy, wiping out all of the stockholders equity and obtaining a federal judges order to put the pension plan and medical benefits to retiree's onto the taxpayers, like three thousand other companies have already done. This will be done in a futile attempt to save the present set of workers jobs, although they will get reduced wages and benefits since that same federal bankruptcy judge will tear up the labor contract too. Once GM gets these cost reductions, then it can play a price war game against Ford, who then will be forced to....


    yup you know....


    File bankruptcy as well.


    How long down the road is this? I don't know but this will happen in the future. Toyota only has one USA plant with the UAW in it, the Fremont California joint venture with GM. Toyota does not have the two retiree's per employee ratio that GM is having to try to carry.

    Toyota has enough cash on hand to actually buy all of General Motors stock right now!

    That retched junk maker ought to go out of business anyway, no company deserves to stay alive after peddling such poor quality for decades on end. Google "GM apologizes for making junk", loads of hits on them doing just that.

    My Prius has 9980 miles today, and it is still FUN to DRIVE!
     
    #9 Robert Taylor, May 9, 2005
  10. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    it would take BILLIONS to save GM if they dont change their ways...otoh, if they dont change their ways, no amount of money will help them out.
     
    #10 DaveinOlyWA, May 10, 2005
  11. NiMHPrius

    NiMHPrius New Member

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    All that I can say is this is what happens when billion dollar companies use their lobbying and lawyer power to keep dinosaur technology on the roads. If it were not for the corruption of the lobbying / lawyer system here in the US, we would have had Federal laws passed that would have forced GM, Ford, etc to build "modern" cars.

    What we have here are people who do not take advantage of the unique opportunity they have. As we can see Toyota could pour capital into a decade long developemnet of their Synergy Drive System. Only very large companies can do that. GM and the like rather went the other way and built a fortress of stone on bed of quicksand. Now all the billions they could have spent on new technologies have gone down the tubes brain washing the public and the government into believing that we don't need to be concerned with the environment or the impending oil shortages.

    I think GM needs a major shake-up, and divestment of their financial burdens, including the pensions and insurance. They need a team modeled after Toyota that can take the company to a higher level. It has nothing to do with Americans not being able to do the job, it has to do with having neaderthals as managers and leaders.

    Just my two cents

    NiMHPrius
     
    #11 NiMHPrius, May 10, 2005
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