GM: Lutz watch

irony of irony ... now GM IS the fed's ... and the fed's ARE GM. Gawd ... you KNOW that can't be good. OK ... so get as much mileage out of the Toyota quality issue as you can ... and good luck. It may be the last chance GM gets. But like I said on the other thread ... you may want to keep your words soft & sweet ... in case you have to eat them if/when the Volt ever comes to markert. It may be even WAY more buggy with it's software, than Toyotas EVER was. I'll bet the folks at GM are taking a double & triple take at it even as we chat.

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You are right, this sitaution will change the regulation of autos in the US forever. I know that GM and Ford are retracing their steps and rushing safety measures into production.

 

When the US embargoes took effect Japan had to get its iron & oil elsewhere. During the Japanese war crimes trials the invaded Asian countries did blame us.

 

yea ... but try and find THAT detail in a U.S. history class. Folks can only handle so much reality.

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I guess that would mean if the US did not shut off Japan's oil and iron they would have just lived in peace in Japan.

Is that seriously what you think? They had already invaded most countries in asia by the time the US shut down the iron and oil.

 

All trolls aside, there is reason to believe that vehicles like the Prius, Insight and Smart Car are making significant inroads in the market.

I've been counting them over the past 2 years - no, I'm not kidding.....I've counted over a million cars on the road (I count on my daily commute, which takes me on I495, Rte 2 and Rte 128 in MA).

Here in New England, centered on northeastern MA, the frequency of those 3 vehicles (I chose them because they get over 40 mpg and are readily identifiable at a distance) has increased from 1 in 130 in May 2008 to around 1 in 75 now. There are local differences, of course, but those numbers cover the best "mixed" routes I take, and are HIGHLY significant statistically.

A current Prius sale rate (we're talking overwhelmingly Priuses) of 2% of the car market (I count cars and SUVs, not trucks) seems just about right.

But the Prius has gone from being a great rarity 5 years ago to being quite a popular car. In many BOS suburbs, 1 in every 45 cars is now a Prius -in Cambridge and the NW inner suburbs of BOS, its closer to 1 in 30.

Lutz ignores this trend at his peril (or at least GM's peril).....this isn't just tree huggers anymore........

 

Lutz is not ignoring it, he is just stating that it is unlikely that Prius-type vehlces will exceed 10% of the market in the foreseeable future.
When I travel, I do see a much higher percentage of Prius in San Francisco, and Boston then say Kansas city or Dallas. In Dallas you see F150's, silverado's and Suburbans, not Priuses. The demographics and topography are definitely factors.
So you are telling me that if you were head of GM or toyota you would make 50% of your line-up hybrids ASAP?

 

Let's try to be constructive.

It does indeed make sense having a premiere vehicle using the technology and pushing it up to the sales leader position... which is exactly what Toyota is working toward for Prius. Isn't that what GM wants to do with Volt?

What is the intention with Volt?

We hear an awful lot about wanting it to be a "halo" vehicle from Lutz with low sales expectations for the first year (8,000 to 10,000). What follows?
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GM is following the toyota model and is building the Volt to be GM's Halo vehicle. Very low volume and high demand at first, eventually a volume comparable to the Prius US volume of 10-15,000 a month.

Obviously the variables in this are energy prices and the economy in general. There are multiple vehicles being worked on by GM which would use the same basic technology including a Cadillac.

 

I had to take a double take at the dates on this thread Bob. This sounds eerily similar to what happened to the EV-1. Weren't they being "forced" to produce energy efficient vehicles then too? They resented the hell out of being told what to do and before you know it, they killed their own young.... fresh new ideas.
*shudder*

It's really freaky how resistant they are, even today. It's obvious by looking at the data that the industry is shifting.

I agree, after the first cannibalistic act by them, I'm all about hoping other companies produce better EV's first. I feel nightmarish about supporting anything GM does. I'm not kidding.

I take the lead on projects from time to time. When you're leading you're also automatically signing up to make the first mistakes too. Toyota is taking an awful lot of crap for being in that position right now. but as you pointed out, American companies are happily using what Toyota is learning to better what they are trying to do.

As an American it's kind of hard to watch us;

1. Be content as followers
2. Watch us nit pick, and ankle bite at the leaders.

+1
I would hazard a guess that more people are buying hybrids because of fuel savings than to support green industry.

 

But that isn't what Toyota did.

Toyota built a hybrid targeted at middle-market (mid-20's price) and kept that effort quiet for the first 5 years of rollout. Remember 2003? It wasn't until then that the concept of "halo" emerged, looooooong after the 1998 model-year rollout.

GM promoting Volt to death well before it makes it to market and the pricing, even when subsidized, is still well out of reach of middle-market.
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The world has changed since Toyota rolled out the first Prius. In 2000, when Prius was introduced to the US, the target market was tiny. Thanks to the prius and the public being much more environemntally conscious, the halo concept is very important. Look what it did for Toyota.

 

Don't disregard that the first year of the so-called "halo" effect there were 60,000 sold here.

As you stated, the world has changed. What do you think Volt will do for GM... allow them to sell lots of guzzlers?
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GM is hoping for the "halo' effect for sure, but also as a pathway to consideration from many of the folks on here. There are so many variables as to the 'real' success of the volt is and even more as to the 'perceived' success of the Volt in the media and thus the public.

i would define real as raw sales volume, launches of similar products, and ultimately profits.

I would define perception as the 'greening' of GM's image and the embrace from or at least the lessening of disdain from the opinion leaders, politicos and such in this country.

 

Right ... we are only now more environmentally conscious. It couldn't be that we're the SAME ... only now, one manufacturer has finally given the market what they already wanted ... instead of promoting land barges, with commercials showing hot chicks next to the SUV's. That's what comes from dinosar corporate leadership. That's why GM gave the public the malibu hybrid ... a car that simply turned off at red lights. Unbelievable that GM heads actually thought their consumers were that stupid.

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I've been driving for over 40 years. Looking back over this brief period of history, it seems that sales of American made cars would surge whenever manufacturers introduced a new car that was truly different. Vehicles like the Mustang, Pinto, Minivan, Corvette, Jeep Cherokee (first SUV) drive the market in a different direction, and radically increase sales (and jobs).

Detroit has forgotten how, or is afraid to innovate. Innovation is the only thing that can save the American car industry. (Back in the 1950's and 1960's innovation was everywhere - from electronics, cars, airplanes, and space flight. During that time period, financial (jobs) growth in the U.S. was phenomenal.)

It is time we get back to our roots and start creating new things again.

Keith

 

Bingo!

Rather than portraying an image of what they'd like (a green future, in this case), they actually got a new product into consumer driveways quickly.

The odd new vehicle called a "minivan" was available for purchase right away at a competitive price. That was innovation.

Having something in very limited quantity well out of the price range of the typical consumer misses the point. Change requires doing something different... not just a token few and mostly just selling the same vehicles as before.
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